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I had seen the U notch on their website, personally, it doesn't change the sight picture so I don't see any advantage or disadvantage.


I am in the same mindset. I don't see the advantage because from the users end, besides some dots being set up differently (no dots, 3 dots, big dot, ect) there is no difference.



Can someone explain to me the gain?
 

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ClosetCaseNerd said:
I had seen the U notch on their website, personally, it doesn't change the sight picture so I don't see any advantage or disadvantage.


I am in the same mindset. I don't see the advantage because from the users end, besides some dots being set up differently (no dots, 3 dots, big dot, ect) there is no difference.



Can someone explain to me the gain?


Here is what Mr. Yam says about the benefits of the U-notch:



"First, the U notch does not affect distance shooting. The notch is .125" wide by .125" deep, so it provides the same net sight picture as many common sights. It is not extra wide, and with a .125" width front blade, it will provide a very familiar sight picture. As long as you are lining up the top corners of the blade with the top inside corners of the notch, it will appear no different. Twenty five yard head shots are no problem with this sight setup - you can see what you normally would expect to see for a hard shot at any distance. Where the setup really shines is shooting at speed. Without the bottom corners of the sight notch, your eye is less drawn to it, thus speeding up overall sight picture acquisition. Contrast this with a rear sight where there may be some brightly colored inserts or a white outline (the worst offender), and your eye must sort out what is important. Using a tritium insert or gold bead on the front sight makes for a super quick pickup - centering a round ball inside a U notch is extremely intuitive. I am able to transition between my U notch sight and a regular square notch sight without problem.



It is also important to note that this sight, which I had been testing since about September of 2004, is not solely structured around the cosmetic design. It is also significantly improved since the original unveiling at SHOT 2005. I have tested various revisions of the design quite extensively, and rest assured that the production version will be a suitably refined product that you can be proud to mount on your 1911.



There is a big world to be explored away from the 2 dot square notch rear sight, and I thank my friends Ken Hackathorn and Scott Warren for turning me on to the advantages of these different setups."
 

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rjhauser said:
so I should spend my $$ on that sight why?



not go with Dan why?



change my stock sight why?



I am confused.


If you have not made a decision yet with all of the infomation that has been posted thus far then....I dont know what to tell ya :?



Seriously though, if it doesnt fill a purpose in YOUR toolbox, then dont buy it. But do not turn this into a childish pissing contest on which came first, or its ugly, or some other useless nonsense. Just move along.



If it does fit into your toolbox, then buy it!
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Well said Nick. Vote with your wallet.



Everyone has their preferences with sights, grips, guns, women, cars, etc. Get what works best for you.
 

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Furthermore....



10-8/Hilton Yam builds guns & gun parts for the purpose of gunfighting, and although these sights are perfectly capable of accurate sighting out to 25+ yards, they are designed for gunfighting, PERIOD. If this concept does not apply to you, then you should look elsewhere for your sights, etc.



Some equip their guns to compete for fun, some equip their guns to kill the enemy, some both. Equip your guns accordingly with what works for YOU, not what looks cool to some in the latests issue of SWAT.
 

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nickdrak said:
..... not what looks cool to some in the latests issue of SWAT.
That's where I first heard of 10-8.



What people are saying is there's not enough difference between that and any other sight for the M&P that's worth the hassle and cost of switching. You obvously have bought into their way of thinking, good for you, but my money is better spent on ammo and practice.
 

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bigkracka said:
[quote name='nickdrak']..... not what looks cool to some in the latests issue of SWAT.
That's where I first heard of 10-8.



What people are saying is there's not enough difference between that and any other sight for the M&P that's worth the hassle and cost of switching. You obvously have bought into their way of thinking, good for you, but my money is better spent on ammo and practice.[/quote]



I wasnt busting on SWAT, only those who feel the need to get every latest piece of gadget that they see in SWAT. Although I do have a subscription to SWAT magazine, I havent bought into anyones "way of thinking". Although I have found through MY training that Novak rear sights, and other similar low profile/No-snag rear sights dont grab onto duty gear or belts well enough to manipulate the slide of a pistol reliably during one handed malfunction drills/reloads. As far as the differences between the 10-8 rear sight and the factory Novak, the differences are in the details, and for ME the differences justify the cost, and the 10 minutes it takes to install them. If YOU cant justify the cost/time, then dont buy it. Nothing to argue about here.



Thanks for enlightening me to "what people are saying", but until I know who those people are, where those people come from, and what knowledge they have to share, I will gather my info from sources that I have found to be experienced and reliable when it comes to weapons skills and training and such. And a couple of those sources just happen to write articles in SWAT magazine from time to time.



Sorry if my comments touched a nerve with anyone, but this IS the internet you know. You will get over it im sure.
 

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I have one of Dan's prototype sights and I really like it. He opened it up for me to about .190. The notch is also deep - which I like.



Sights likes/dislikes vary with personal tastes, but I've never seen a advantage to a U notch - YMMV.
 

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nickdrak said:
Thanks for enlightening me to "what people are saying", but until I know who those people are, where those people come from, and what knowledge they have to share, I will gather my info from sources that I have found to be experienced and reliable when it comes to weapons skills and training and such.
Does that include you?
And a couple of those sources just happen to write articles in SWAT magazine from time to time.
That make a living off selling gadgets. What were you saying about buying every little gadget in SWAT? lol
 

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bigkracka said:
[quote name='nickdrak']Thanks for enlightening me to "what people are saying", but until I know who those people are, where those people come from, and what knowledge they have to share, I will gather my info from sources that I have found to be experienced and reliable when it comes to weapons skills and training and such.
Does that include you?
And a couple of those sources just happen to write articles in SWAT magazine from time to time.
That make a living off selling gadgets. What were you saying about buying every little gadget in SWAT? lol[/quote]



You sure got me on both accounts! May I also say that your comments here have been very constructive and informative to those of us that have come to this forum looking to gather useful information. Keep up the good work!
 

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Thanks for updating this Matt. I'm going to seriously look at Hilton's sight along with the Warren Tacticals.
 

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For what its worth I never really learned to focus (I am still very much in the process of learning to shoot hand guns effectively) on the top corners of the sight, just to focus on the front sight overall. The U-notch style sights make much more sense now that I picked up this technique. Its rather effective and quick, directing your attention to the spot that matters the most for precision.



So, I receed my earlier statements, even though I can see how they could hold true for others.



Thanks for teaching me somethin'



- Nerd
 

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That's a decent looking sight except for the heavy serrations - Too much like the Heinie rear sight which I don't care for. Other than that they look pretty good and of course much better than the factory option. I still think Dave Dawson has the best product on the market for sights...YMMV
 

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Several top shooters have turned to the U notch type. I agree with Bryan, I dont like the serrations. They look exactly like Heinies with the notch corners rounded out to make it a U notch.



I think Scott Warren started the U notch and began the manufacuring for his WTS sights. I believe he also conferred with Dave Sevigny on this as well as his competition sights. His comp sights are slanted back (the opposite direction of Heinies) and dont have a glare b/c of it. He also does not use serrations.



Now, after shooting w/ serrated rear sights for years, I tried the WTS/Sevigny comp sights and loved them. Now if I have to shoot a Heinie rear or serrated rear, it bothers the hell out of me b/c of the serrations, they really distract me. I didnt learn this until shooting w/out them for a short while, but they really do distract me.
 
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