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Besides the Glock, the most frequent comparison I have heard is between the M&P and the 1911 platform. I have about the same amount of time on the 1911 Platform in .45 and the M&P in .40.



For people that own both or have a high amount of time on both, how would you compare the shootability between the two?



For me, I am equal in accuracy between the two and my times are all roughly the same.
 

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Any time I have on a 1911 it was my cousins custom. Its a tight gun that will hold tight groups. Shootability, that 1911 has it, but its not a combat gun. I love the way it recoils, heck, I love everything about it, but I wouldn't carry it every day. Some fuzz gets in it, it woln't run.
 

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I still love the 1911. If they are tuned right they make excellent combat/defensive pistols. I think the modern striker fired pistols are more practical for everyday use.
 

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I had a Springfield 1911 that I carried when I went camping. It always went boom when I wanted it too. The parts arent as tight as a kimber or wilson, so when it got dirty it fired just as good as if it wasnt dirty. The 1911's that are coming out are to tight fitting for me. Any dirt and you get a jam. Get your hands on a old 1911 and it will shoot just like a dream. Oh and the reason I sold my springfield is that the frame kept rusting no matter how much I oiled it. But it fired no matter what rust, grit and all. Sometimes I miss the old girl.
 

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I have about 10,000 rounds on my 1911 I used for limited 10. I have about 1500 on my M&P I shoot in production.



I actually like the M&P better overall, but it's largely a matter of personal preference and where I am at with the whole shooting thing at the moment.



I got pretty good at single stack reloads, but the M&P beats it hands down. It's not just the double-stack mags and opening, as I have had other double stack guns that I actually found harder to reload than the 1911.



Weight distribution, the M&P wins. My 1911 is a heavy example of the breed, which probably colors my opinion. I find it easier to transition from target to target faster and with more control.



Cycle time, the M&P wins. It takes less time to recover from recoil and get an acceptable sight picture.



Trigger, 1911 wins. the 1911 single action trigger is just better in general. On top of that, it let me get away with slapping the trigger. With the M&P I'm ahving to learn to ride the reset and prep the trigger differently on the draw.



Sights, the 1911 wins. The longer sight radius and better selection wins.



Manual of arms, the M&P wins. Simpler is better IMO.



Accuracy, the 1911 wins. But we are talking a gun with some hand fitting that cost twice as much after having found a very good deal on it.



Controllability. For shooting a harsher cartridge, and giving up about a pound of weight, and not having a safety to put your thumb on, I find it about as controllable as my 1911. That's saying a lot, so I have to say it wins despite the net performance being a push.



Reliability. M&P wins. I have the 1911 setup to be very reliable, but based on the perofmance at 1000 rounds between cleaning, the M&P will go longer without puking or any TLC.



Learning curve M&P wins. I've always said the 1911 shouldn't be a first gun. The continuing overall (but fortunately slowing) decline in the quality of factory "custom" 1911s and the increasing price only makes the issue more of a PITA. (namely all the varieties of "improved" extractors, and what your choices are for fixing them so they work).



Does the M&P trounce the 1911? No. A 2011/para widebody? Definitely not. However, I think it is a very good performer and a more well rounded gun. Especially for ME at the current point and time.



As for actual performance for me compared to my 1911?



1911 in a crspeed vs. M&P in a bladetech DOH: about the same time to first shot, but I have a better, more consistant grip on the M&P.



Reloads: Best vs. best, it's a push, but my best shows up more often with the M&P.



Accuracy: Still playing catch up to the 1911. Almost there, but even then major vs. minor is leaving me with a sizable gap in performance at the end of the match.



Speed: The M&P is winning in actual courses of fire where I have to do a lot more and more severe transitions. IN classifiers that are more stand and shoot, the 1911 is still ahead, but not by much.
 

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matt7184 said:
Besides the Glock, the most frequent comparison I have heard is between the M&P and the 1911 platform. I have about the same amount of time on the 1911 Platform in .45 and the M&P in .40.



For people that own both or have a high amount of time on both, how would you compare the shootability between the two?



For me, I am equal in accuracy between the two and my times are all roughly the same.


I have 20k on the 1911 and 2k on the M&P.

But when it comes down to 2 guns on the table and 1 second to make the shot I'm picking up the .45. It has the knockdown and massive trauma damage that I want. I have seen it and done it. To me .45 has been my lifesaver 3 times. I swear by it.

It does the job, a double tap and they are down, not one ever got up. Its that simple.



But if the table has a 1911 and a M&P .45 I'm grabbin the M&P. Why? The chance of a FTE on the first round are nill to none compared to the 1911. Sad truth.



So will S&W please get the M&P .45 out on the market!
 

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I've been shooting 1911's for a very long time (37 years), I have competed with a Colt Gold Cup Series 70, I really like the 1911! There is a downside to the 1911 for self defense, it is single action, so for carry you must carry it cocked and locked, and it has limited capacity, and I don't like the wide frame 1911's. The MP40 that I have is a great pistol for self defense, it is more compact, it's double action, and it carries lots of ammo in the magazine.



My current 1911 is a Kimber Custom Target, I love to shoot it, it has great adjustable sights, and is very accurate, and I can shoot it more accurately than the MP40, I suspect mainly because the Kimber has target sights, but for self defense, I'll take the MP40 over the 1911.
 

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Well,



As of today, I have 6 Single Stack 1911's, and 3 STI Fat Guns!!



I have another 2 STI 1911's being Built at the Factory and a S&W 1911 might be in my future, soooo, I like 1911's



All I can say is that the M&P is one of the most comfortable handguns I've ever shot!!



WOW, and for a Handgun with a Retail price right around $500, what a shooter!!



I have seen this kind of accuracy in custom Handguns costing 3 times as much!!



I would say that the M&P compares very highly with the 1911.



But remember, it's not the same gun, nor was it ever meant to be the same gun.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good posts guys keep it coming.



For me besides shootability (which is about equal), there is still just something about a 1911 that keeps tempting me. I have funds set aside for an M&P compact but the Kimber Target Match and Kimber Desert Warrior are still calling my name. Like others have stated, I believe the 1911 is the equivalent to the American's Samurai Sword.



As Hilton Yam has stated on the 10-8 forums, for someone that does not want to deal with the quirks of a 1911, they should probably go for a Glock 17. With the M&P and 10-8 Consulting's reviews of them, I believe that the M&P 9mm may be recommended over the G17 now.
 

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Wow. Well thought out responses. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool 1911 Platform guy, yet I simply adore the M&P.



1911 wins: trigger, ergos, pointability, ultimate accuracy, ease of carry (at least for me).



M&P9 wins: speed (lesser cartridge), very close in ergos, ease of carry (very lightweight).



If I am to go out I always reach for my slightly custom 1911s probably because of the ergos, trigger, cartridge (I really don't think the differences matter; placement and speed wins in my opinion) and speed (considering the cartridge).



Yes, there are some contridictions, but the low pressure cartridge in the 1911 package (customized for me: arched mainspring housing and Ed Brown grip safety) makes it "a natural" for quick shooting. A shorter trigger reset would make a difference here, I think.



My 1911s have been extremely reliable (one TRP has 6,400 rounds of WWB with no failures), but they will no doubt require more maintenance than the polymer pistols on the market. The polymer guns are less expensive to purchase, maintain and replace parts.



The M&P will be my travel gun - if it's "lost" on a flight it's so much less expensive to replace. But, the 1911 is like shaking hands with an old girlfriend and despite my conviction that the size of the caliber doesn't really matter - I do prefer (slightly) .45 ACP in my primary carry gun. That said, I don't feel undergunned with any decent 9 mm pistol and in equal platforms the 9 mm should be faster than the .45 ACP, and easier to manage the recoil thus making it easier to make decisive hits under extreme pressure. Same when comparing 9mm to .40 S&W - but only more so with the .40 S&W's snappy recoil compared to 9mm and .45 ACP
 

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I was in the same situation. I've shot 1911s for years, use them for both competition and carry. Got the M&P to give Production division a try. Going back and forth between the two isn't so bad but I had to really get used to the difference in the trigger on the M&P. I was jerking and pushing the gun around, things that wouldn't effect the 1911s trigger. I almost gave it up to back to the 1911 exclusively. I did a DIY trigger job and played with the backstraps, and worked on my trigger technique. I'm shooting it much better now. Having been spoiled by the 1911 trigger let me pickup some bad habits. Being more aware of my trigger finger on the M&P has also helped me when shooting the 1911.



I view the 1911 and the M&P as complimentary guns. For a 1911 die-hard lookiing for a polymer gun (besides the kimber 10 or the Bul) the M&P is a good choice. In addition to Production division, I also got the 9mm M&P for cheap range practice without having to reload. I'd never giveup my 1911s for an M&P, but they can live happily together and the more I shoot it, the more I realize what a good gun the M&P is.



I remember reading in one post one guy said the M&P is a polymer 1911. While not entirely true I know exactly what he meant by this.
 

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I own both (S&W SW1911 Target and M&P .40) and I just don’t see any comparison.

The are two totally different animals. I guess I see the 1911’s of today as match or bulls eye weapons.



My M&P is certainly not in the accuracy class of my 1911. (I have never seen a plastic gun that is) I see it as more of a duty or working gun. I would use it for duty carry (if I did that anymore) or concealed carry, but not for competition. 15 rounds of .40 S&W is a pretty sweet package if SHTF.



If by shootability you mean accurately shooting a target in competition; it would hands down be the 1911.



If by shootability you mean accurately shooting a bunch of bad guys that are close to you; it would hands down be the M&P.



I guess I think of the two guns as differently as I do Rifles and shotguns, that’s why I have both. I have a lot of revolvers too. Everything is application driven.


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IMHO, any time you can get a bunch of 1911 users to say good things about another weapon in the same breath as we speak of our holy .45's its pretty damn impressive! :wink:
 

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ToolMaker said:
IMy M&P is certainly not in the accuracy class of my 1911. (I have never seen a plastic gun that is) I see it as more of a duty or working gun. I would use it for duty carry (if I did that anymore) or concealed carry, but not for competition.


I must disagree there!!



Try that line with Jerry Miculek, Julie Goloski, Bobby McGee, Scott Warren and me!!



We all shoot M&P's in Competition!!



I'm not a GM in Production, but I can hold my own with the M&P.



One more thing, In production, the M&P does not paly in the same field as the 1911's.



But then again David Sevigny used a Plastic Gun to win the USPSA Limited Nationals and beat a bunch of 1911's in the process!!



It's all in whold behind the gun and how much prectice you but with said gun.



Just my $.02
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Puffy said:
IMHO, any time you can get a bunch of 1911 users to say good things about another weapon in the same breath as we speak of our holy .45's its pretty damn impressive! :wink:


That is actually one reason why I went to the M&P platform...it's hard to impress 1911 folks!
 

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ysued said:
I must disagree there!!



Try that line with Jerry Miculek, Julie Goloski, Bobby McGee, Scott Warren and me!!



We all shoot M&P's in Competition!!



I'm not a GM in Production, but I can hold my own with the M&P.



One more thing, In production, the M&P does not paly in the same field as the 1911's.



But then again David Sevigny used a Plastic Gun to win the USPSA Limited Nationals and beat a bunch of 1911's in the process!!



It's all in whold behind the gun and how much prectice you but with said gun.



Just my $.02
Are you saying that you can shoot an M&P more accurately than a 1911 at 50 yards?



What did Miculek shoot with an M&P, or any other plastic gun?



I though Julie Goloski had stepped up to an S&W 1911?



Besides. Sevigny; how many people have won a USPSA Limited title with something other than a 1911?



akr said:
Toolmaker-----



You don't think much of those 1911's, do you?
I love 1911’s. But as I said everything is application driven.

S&W has a real winner with the M&P in their target market. I think it is great to see an American Made firearm being put back in the hands of LEO’s.
 

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ToolMaker said:
Are you saying that you can shoot an M&P more accurately than a 1911 at 50 yards?


No, But I shoot Production, and you can't shoot production with a 1911!!



I own 7 1911's, I have 3 mre STI's on order now!!



But for Production, the M&P is it!!



ToolMaker said:
What did Miculek shoot with an M&P, or any other plastic gun?


At the Production nationals, Jerry shot the M&P!!







ToolMaker said:
I though Julie Goloski had stepped up to an S&W 1911?


Julie WON the USPSA Production ladies Title with an M&P9!!



The won the Limited 10 with the 1911, but she used to do it with a Glock in the past!!



ToolMaker said:
Besides. Sevigny; how many people have won a USPSA Limited title with something other than a 1911?


Not in Limited, David is the first one to do it.





But I was 4th overall in a Benefit match back in June, I was beat by 1 Limited, One Limited 10 and One Open gun, out of 50 shooters!!



I was shooting a bone stock Glock 17 with Winchester White Box from WallyWorld!!



The 1911 is a great gun, But for PD, the M&P is the gun now!!



Like you said, 2 different Guns, 2 different Divisions, they rarely mix with each other in competition, but also, we rarely shoot 50 yard Standards in USPSA Anymore, I miss it though



At the USPSA Production we had 35 YD Poppers in fron of No-Shoots, that was tough, even for Open shooters!!
 

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The M&P is the best of (polymer) breed as far as I'm concerned. The H&K P2000 runs it very close (I own one in 9 mm). Whether the S&W is actually better I dunno; the telling advantage - for me anyway - is that I can contact S&W and ask for them to take a look at something or purchase parts and they respond.



As for relegating a 1911 to "target" status is laughable to me. If it can do it competition - and it "has no peer" - and it's good enough for Delta and MEU-SOC (as well as some SEAL units) it's good enough to inside of my Blade-Tech IWB rig with two additional magazines for comfort.
 
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