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Discussion Starter #1
I make a point to start these posts with the fact that "I love these pistols." I'm not going to give up on a pistol that I shoot 1" groups out to 12' with, soaks up 155gr Gold Dot's like a Glock 19 with +P's, and fit's my hand like a proverbial glove.



BUT...this is getting a bit rediculous. I know Smith and Wesson has good service. I've had a chance unfortunately to experience it first hand twice with this Full size .40. The first time I sent it in was after about 250 rounds. The problem: after about the 12th round of a full magazine, the mag pops out of the pistol, resulting in a failure to feed. This occurred over and over the first time so the pistol was sent in. I got it back within a week, with a letter saying "faulty mag catch replace", Test good. Well after I got it back, I took it out to test, and same thing. I'm am sure that I'm not engaging the mag release on the pistol. I've taken great care to trouble shoot that area.



I sent the pistol back again last Friday before last, got it back the next Friday, once again, QUICK turn around. This time the same white sheet of paper with the 800 # but no remarks what so ever regarding what was done to the pistol. I called the number and spoke to someone in the customer service que. He read the remarks on the PC and said, "it says they replaced the mag catch". I of course asked him if that was the first time or the second. He said the second as well as the first, but honestly not very convincingly. And of course the standard, "thats really weird that's happening." as if it was the first time he'd heard of it.



Took it out today, the first 4 magazines...same thing. The mag pops out. I'm really frustrated and decide to load three full magazines and work the pistol over. I proceeded to shoot another 300 round so of UMC .40 and it never happend again! I felt like I wanted to shoot it till it happened again after happening 4 mags in a row at the initial range session.



So I don't know what I'm gong to do with this pistol. If I send it back again, I want a new one. Since it performed without a problem the last 300 rounds, I'm thinking why send it back. But I've lost confidence in this pistol and I did plan to carry it concealed as least part of the time.



What do you guys think? Send it back again? Even I go to the range tomorrow and put another 200 rounds through it without problems, I'm feeling like it could happen again anytime since it happened again today with a pistol that was supposedly fixed AGAIN.



Know what though...I own a lot of great pistols...I still consider these to be my current favorite handgun. This gun shoots .40 as soft or softer than my SIG P229's.
 

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I would suggest firing another 100 or so rounds through the gun and see if the failure reoccurs. If it does, then I would try moving the mag release to the opposite side of the gun, just to ensure that you aren't accidentally putting pressure on the mag release while firing. If it fails with the mag release on either side, then I would insist that the gun be replaced. Any chance you can have someone take a video of you shooting the gun and record any future failures? I sent an E-mail to Smith last night about this issue and should get a response next week.
 

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Honestly, I believe it's a bigger issue than a magazine catch. If it was a magazine catch issue how come we're only seeing it with the M&P40 and not the 9mms or compacts?



If it were mine I'd send it back again and ask for a new frame.



EDITED TO ADD: Read this response about the mag catches: http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopic.php?...&highlight=



Maybe the catches are the problem???
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Fired another 75 rounds today. Every one of the magazines popped out...even one handed with my hand far away from the mag release and no left hand pressure on the side lip of the magazine. This is a MFG flaw. You can feel the pressure in the grip with .40 caliber. It's trying hard to retain the magazine, but it can't. I'll be shipping it back as soon as they send me another freaking label. I wrote a letter and asked them to call me when they recieve it. I want a new pistol. I hate going through crap like this. I don't like to complain, and still think these are good pistols, but it slays me that there could be this lack of quality control when they are trying to win police contracts!
 

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Request for Dan Burnwell's comments on this issue

Dear Dan Burnwell,



As the resident gunsmith on the M&P forum, I thought I'd ask you for your thoughts on the myriad of mag catch problems that people are experiencing. I have both the fullsize and compact M&P 40 and I know that the edge profiles of the two mag catch metal tabs are most definitely different. The metal part of the mag catch tab on my fullsize is cut on more of an angle that seems to follow the angle of the cut in the magazine, and the edge of the catch on my compact is close to square, but shorter. The fullsize has, without a doubt, a much better "hold" on magazines than the compact. My compact's catch requires just the slightest depression ala "hair-trigger" to get the mag to pop out of the frame. I've already had the mag pop out twice when I didn't want it to while carrying it. I've never had this experience with my G27 that I traded it for. You must see a relatively large number of M&P's pass through your shop and was wondering what differences you've seen among them.



Also as I wrote in my posts, the rod spring used for the M&P mag catches seems to require much less force to get the mag to eject than that of other manufacturers (Glock, Sig, etc.), most certainly contributing to its hyper sensitivity. This coupled with the fact that the top of the mag release button protrudes from the surface of the frame the amount that it does seems to make for a bad design combination. Weak catch spring + incorrect mag catch tab profile + high mag release button = unreliable pistol.



Q1: Do you know if it would be possible to put a beefier rod spring in the frame for the mag catch, even after I get a replacement "laser-cut" mag catch?



I love my M&Ps in every other way, only this part of its design really seems to have been overlooked/under-engineered. I need a pistol that I can bet my life on, and I'm not the gambling type of man.



Thanks,



APismoClam
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I got my M&P .40 full size back after it's third trip back to fix the mag catch issue. They were as quck as ever to get me the label and get the pistol back to me. This time one of the smiths called me and told me they were replacing the frame completely. They determined the frame was stretched or out of spec somehow. To me this sounds like a faulty mold, given that this problem has happened to more than just mine. He was a very nice guy that said "you shouldn't have had to send the GxxDxxxx pistol back three times." His exact words. "For you troubles your pistol is coming back with a set of night sights."



Even though I haven't confirmed that the pistol is fixed yet, (I will later this morning), I have never encountered customer service at this level for any product. The first time the pistol went back they returned it with a free 15 round magazine.



I REALLY hope I can shoot 400 rounds today with out a single malfunction, because now, more than ever, I want this to be my carry gun, along with my compact 9mm.



The really cool moral of the story is; I love these night sights! They look to be the newer style trijicons with the bolder while outline/ ring, similar to Meprolights. Guess what? Both the full and compact 9mm will be getting a set of factory nightsights now, given I can't imagine replacing the Novak sights that come on the pistol with any other type of night sight. THAT, is the way a successful company is run. Knock your cusotmer out with outstanding service, he buys MORE from you!



We'll see if the problem is solved, but for now, and once again, BRAVO Smith and Wesson!
 

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i have over 3000 rounds thru my 40 and is starting to drop mags.not all the time but it happens. i am sure its not me pushing release during recoil.where do i start since you seem to know the routine this is my carry gun so i am worried
 

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Discussion Starter #8
tigs40cal said:
i have over 3000 rounds thru my 40 and is starting to drop mags.not all the time but it happens. i am sure its not me pushing release during recoil.where do i start since you seem to know the routine this is my carry gun so i am worried


It's an obvious defect in the frame of the gun. I made sure I wasn't even touching the mag release also before I ever sent the pistol back. The first time they replaced the mag catch. It started dropping mags after about 200 rounds. The second time they didn't really say what they did, but when I called they said they replaced the mag catch, although I have a feeling the call center guy that took that call was reading the original notes. Same thing occurred the very first magazine I shot. I just got back from shooting about 300 rounds without a single mag drop. The pistol does still feel like there is a fair amount of pressure on the magazine toward the last couple of rounds, but it held all day today, so that's good news.



Where do you start? Call S&W tomorrow or email them. They will send you a prepaid UPS label. Ship it back to them with a letter inside the box, along with all your magzines. Ask them in the letter if this is one of the "faulty frames" and if so you want a new frame. Mine isn't the first time they've replaced the entire frame. I wouldn't mess around with them saying they replaced the mag catch, cause it really hasn't been the answer for me, perhaps it has for some however.



For now all is good, but I will need to put another 1000 fault free rounds through the pistol before I will carry it. Good luck!
 

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Jagman.... are things still good with your gun? Does the magwell seem snugger to the mag on the new frame than on the original frame?



Tigs... what happened with your issue? Gun back from S&W yet?
 

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The magazine catch design of the M&P is one of my only issues with what I know about the design thus far. If I'm correct, it's simply a metal bar that sticks up from the frame made out of spring steel and slotted into the slot on the mag catch. This does allow the catch to be very easily ambidextrous, however, it means that the metal bar used for the spring can't be that strong since it's spring steel. Hard spring steel has a tendency to be brittle and fatigue faster. So this could honestly be a manufacturing issue where they need to find strong springs but not ones that one will become brittle and snap off. - Colt
 

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The mag catch spring, like the one in the M&P, has been used in other platforms with great success. I don't think the spring is the problem.
 

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Which platforms? And I'm not trying to assert it's the one and only cause of everything but that it could be a contributing factor to some.
 

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as far as my 40 s&w got their hands on mine last tuesday at 9 am. i got a letter the next saturday that they had it and that most repairs are made in two to three weeks
i have my fingers crossed.bad thing last saturday wifes 9 c started droping mags every shot. im getting tired of this
 

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I just got done shooting the steel match today and my mags started popping out on the last string. My gun is going to have to go back as well for repairs. This time, it does not look like the mag catch. My first mag catch was worn on one side but this one has no marks on it. I will be calling S&W and tell them to look at the frame since that is the only other thing that may be causing this malfunction
. I hope they get it back to me asap.
 

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Disappointing.... the M&P has such promise, but it will be quite some time until I feel I can totally trust mine again. In part it will take not reading of this issue occuring to others - at both low and high round counts. That could be a couple or three years I suspect. I will keep it and keep shooting it. But for carry, I'm trusting my G19.
 

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It would be most helpful if you guys would post which MODEL of the MP you have that is experiencing mag catch isssues. I see one .40 full size but most of the other models are unknown. Please let us know exactly which model you are talking about.
 

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I have a full size 40 and the mags started dropping out after only 185 rds. thru it. Smith repair the gun in less than a week turn around. I put 50 rds thru it yesterday no problems, they replace the mag catch. I hope this is not a quick fix for a design problem will keep you updated.
 

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Mine is a 40 Compact... "N" series. Mag started dropping after around 400 rounds. S&W replaced the mag catch promptly and that fixed the problem - for now anyway. I hnoticed that in just a couple hundred rounds after replacement that there was noticible wear on the new mag catch metal engagement area. Now I have around 600 rounds since the mag catch replacement. I'd like to think the gun is fixed for good, but have a sneaky feeling that the mag catch problems may not have been eliminated for good... as I said above... another couple of years with the new M&P line in service should shake out the problems and by then, hopefully, S&W will have a gun as reliable as anything else out there.
 
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