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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys, new to the forum but not shooting. I purchased a 9L Pro CORE this winter and am having some accuracy issues with it. Anytime I start getting past 7 yards my groups begin to spread (up, down, and left) dramatically.

The spreading grows exponentially with each yard I step back. I can literally shoot a group with rounds touching at 7 yards, take two steps back, and my group expands to 4". It does this with factory irons or the Leupold Deltapoint. It does it with various ammo (lead or jacketed, multiple weights. I've tried up to 10 so far). I've tried modifying my grip, trigger finger placement, stance, gloves, no gloves, etc. I've had several individuals observe me for issues and shoot the pistol themselves to similar results. I've checked to see if it was a early barrel that I have read about accuracy issues with (it is not).

I've gone shooting with other pistols just keep my confidence up and I do well again. I'm not looking for a 1" group at 15 yards but I would like to hit the paper. It's that bad. As it stands I'm about 3,500 rounds into this pistol and haven't been able to resolve the issue. I absolutely love the pistol except for this issue.

I appreciate all of your advice! Please no "It's the shooter not the gun" type comments. If I want that I'll go to my buddies and start teasing him about his Walther.
 

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Have you tried changing ammo brands? That can sometimes make a huge difference.
 

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Three words.... K K M ... I haven't experienced the severity of problems you are stating, but I have experienced floating group and unexplained fliers with my 3 pro's with stock barrels. The KKM barrels fixed all that. For me, the $150 was worth it becoming a non issue. Or you can call S&W but again i think the $150 is money well spent versus time spent on that road. All just MHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Have you tried changing ammo brands? That can sometimes make a huge difference.
Yes sir. Of the approximate 10 variations of ammo I have tried I have included weight, lead or jacketed, and brand. All with the same results. Only one batch of ammo shot differently. They were some reloaded lead rounds I bought at a gun show. Undersized so they leaded real bad and had HORRIBLE accuracy. I don't count those in the test groups because it was clearly the ammo in that one case.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Three words.... K K M ... I haven't experienced the severity of problems you are stating, but I have experienced floating group and unexplained fliers with my 3 pro's with stock barrels. The KKM barrels fixed all that. For me, the $150 was worth it becoming a non issue. Or you can call S&W but again i think the $150 is money well spent versus time spent on that road. All just MHO.
I've have been considering this. I just want to make sure I'm not missing any possibilities before I jump into a new barrel. I have seen that KKM and Storm pop up the most. Did you do any other mods or changes that benefited the pistols accuracy performance in anyway?
 

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I've have been considering this. I just want to make sure I'm not missing any possibilities before I jump into a new barrel. I have seen that KKM and Storm pop up the most. Did you do any other mods or changes that benefited the pistols accuracy performance in anyway?

All of mine are competition guns so all 3 have 1.5 to 1.75lb trigger pulls, w forward reset, so much like a 1911 pull, once you pivot the lower trigger to clear the safety, your at the pressure walk. Both production and limited guns have Dawson adjustable rear sights w fiber fronts.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Have you shot it off a benchrest?
Nope because the jump is so noticeable. Additionally I've confirmed the issue by having various individuals fire the pistol as well as confirming it wasn't myself by using different pistols which then exhibited acceptable results.

Oh, and I have never shot a pistol off a bench mainly because I'm usually in the woods. And I'm stubborn. If I can fix this for my offhand shooting I think I will shoot some bench with both the problem setup and the fix setup. Then I will document it for educational purposes.

In all seriousness, I don't believe a benchrest will shoot will reveal different results but if I start getting fed up with this and tire of working on it I will absolutely bench test it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
All of mine are competition guns so all 3 have 1.5 to 1.75lb trigger pulls, w forward reset, so much like a 1911 pull, once you pivot the lower trigger to clear the safety, your at the pressure walk. Both production and limited guns have Dawson adjustable rear sights w fiber fronts.
Excellent. I will be adding the Apex FSS to it in the next week or so. I haven't messed with a fiber optic front sight yet because I'm running the Deltapoint RDS. I'm curious if the two would clash and create a starburst type problem.
 

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Nope because the jump is so noticeable. Additionally I've confirmed the issue by having various individuals fire the pistol as well as confirming it wasn't myself by using different pistols which then exhibited acceptable results.

Oh, and I have never shot a pistol off a bench mainly because I'm usually in the woods. And I'm stubborn. If I can fix this for my offhand shooting I think I will shoot some bench with both the problem setup and the fix setup. Then I will document it for educational purposes.

In all seriousness, I don't believe a benchrest will shoot will reveal different results but if I start getting fed up with this and tire of working on it I will absolutely bench test it.
I've always been the "eliminate as many variables as possible" kind of guy. To each his own.
 

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I've always been the "eliminate as many variables as possible" kind of guy. To each his own.
Same here. When I got my M&P Pro 9 I shot it off the bench to see how well it grouped with different types of ammunition. Then I couldn't blame poor shooting on the pistol.
 

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I'd give the bench rest a go. I have a 9L and a 9PRO and thought the 9L was out shooting my 9PRO. To throw a twist in the game, my FS9 was out shooting both of them. Once I got my round count up on the 9L and 9PRO everything started to even out. My FS9 was a tack driver right out of the box. Both 9L and 9PRO are tack drivers now. It just took a little break-in time to get them on the money. Only mods done on any of them were cleaning out all the factory lube and me just smoothing/polishing out factory burrs or rough spots and shooting the living daylights out of them. Same for my 9 Shield and 9c. I've had zero issues or problems after a good break-in (including my FS 45's).
 

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+1 on the benchrest check, that'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new barrel and not needing it.
 

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Both my '07 and '13 M&P9's are quite accurate.

The '07 is bone stock, and I put the CAEK in the '13, because even though it came with the "improved" trigger, etc.; the much shot old one had a smoother and lighter trigger.
 

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Nope because the jump is so noticeable. Additionally I've confirmed the issue by having various individuals fire the pistol as well as confirming it wasn't myself by using different pistols which then exhibited acceptable results.

Oh, and I have never shot a pistol off a bench mainly because I'm usually in the woods. And I'm stubborn. If I can fix this for my offhand shooting I think I will shoot some bench with both the problem setup and the fix setup. Then I will document it for educational purposes.

In all seriousness, I don't believe a benchrest will shoot will reveal different results but if I start getting fed up with this and tire of working on it I will absolutely bench test it.
Trying not to sound to "dickish", but if you haven't shot it off sand-bags, you have NO IDEA if it's the gun, or YOU. Second... If you are shooting touching rounds at 7 yards, the gun is CAPABLE of shooting 2-3" groups at 25 yards. YOU are not.

Shoot it at 15-25 yards off sand-bags, and see what happens. The bullets are NOT curving.

JW
 

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I think my first move in you case would be to return the gun to S&W to have it checked out to their specs. If it passes their tests and you continue to have the same results, then possibly look at another barrel. I too have had great luck with the KKM barrels and a great company to work with. I have two Pro 9's (not CORE), that I shoot in IDPA. One is a 2012 model and the other is a new model. The new model (dimple barrel) is accurate with all bullet weights. The older barrel is not very accurate with 115 or 124 grain loads but does much better with 147. I now use a a KKM barrel in the older Pro and have had good luck with all bullet weights.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sorry about the delayed response guys. I've moved since I was last on. Been crazy and haven't had access to a local range. So I built my own. Appreciate all the input. I understand the bench comments. I really do. Please understand that the problem is/was notable enough that a bench grouping was/is unnecessary. Again, the negative results were confirmed on this single pistol with multiple experienced shooters. All shooters exhibited the exact same consistent issues as myself.

The good news is that is all a fixed! I started with the Apex trigger which is pretty awesome. It clearly didn't affect my problem much but I love the feel and pull on that trigger. I fired a box through with the trigger just to experience it. Focused on sight picture and trigger control while ignoring the groups. Was very pleased at how it worked compared to the stock trigger. What fixed the issue though is the KKM barrel. Instant difference. Absolutely fixed it. Groups tightened up right away. Understandably the pistol was off zero with the red dot but the groups were tight! Finally consistent tight groups. Did I mention that I was actually getting groups again. I re-zeroed the red dot and ran it again. Beautiful! I'm about to put a lot of lead through this pistol now. Better get my powder coating and cast bullet molds out to start loading rounds.

And JeffWard, no sweat. I get it. Control the variables. For the record I'm not a fan of Wanted. Even Angelinas walk away couldn't save that movie.
 
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