[carteach0]

I'm looking for load data.



9mm luger

124 grain Speer Gold Dot bullet

Win WSP primer

Powders preferred: Bullseye, Red Dot, Herco, 231



These powers are preferred because I have a fair amount of each. I have

other powders on hand and of course I'm willing to buy more.



I would like to arrive at a 9mm +p load with this bullet, then duplicate

it's 'shooting feel' as close as I can with a 124 grain lead round nose.



Also, does anyone know what velocity puts it in the +p range? I'll

set up my chronograph when I think I am getting close.

 

[999]

I'm not sure if S&W recommends using +P loads in the M&P...



:?

 

[MrApathy]

+p is fine



231 is okay stay away from bullseye and reddot.



231 is a bit fast powder if you want speed Herco is good

so is powerpistol,longshot,Vv N340/N350/3N37

HS6. AA#5 for heavy bullets ie 135-147gr AA#7



no load data I have seen in books.

closest thing to it is some data in Lymans 48th Manual.



learn how to load 9mm long before you even attempt +p loading.

most 9mm book data is for 9mm loaded to 1.125 and shorter.

learn to go to 1.150-1.169 and still be able to have the ammo cycle in your gun. not all lengths and bullet combo's will come out of the chamber as nice as they go in loaded. lead and +p not a good idea.



+p has nothing to do with velocity its pressure. 35,000 psi is saami maximum pressure for p 9mm ammo. +p ammo has a 38,500 psi saami maximum for pressure. +p+ can be anywhere from 38,501psi to 40,000-50,000psi pressure no set standard for +p+. has nothing to do with the velocity you get.



margin of safety is considerably reduced when toying with +p loads. you or someone next to you could get seriously injured.



no need to go +p with some powders. can get the job done with standard pressure and high safety margine specificly with powerpistol.

 

[carteach0]

Apathy,



You are of course correct. I did not make my question very clear at all.



With the bullet mentioned I would like to load for 1200-1250 FPS, which I understand is +p territory in pressure with just about any powder.



I suppose I should mention the load is also to be used in a shorter barreled compact M+P 9mm.



231 has always been a 'go to' powder for me in my .38, .357, and especially my .45acp. Perhaps that explains why I have only 2 pounds on hand. I keep using it up!



On the other hand, I have recently come into a fair amount of Red Dot (aprox 14 pounds). I was hoping against experience that it would fill a niche for me here with the 9mm.



I have tried a 9mm 124 grain lead load with 4.4 of Bullseye in this

pistol and found it was quite accurate and cycled well. Alliant shows 4.8 is a max load of Bullseye behind a 125 grain jacketed bullet, but also shows pressure as still quite low at that load. I was hoping that meant a bit of room to creep up the velocity without jumping pressure too high, especially in this short barreled pistol.



Thoughts and observations so far on OAL and the M+P compact 9mm:



The round nose stuff feeds quite smoothly, no matter lead or jacketed. All the way out to 1.250", but extraction of loaded rounds is very iffy with anything over 1.200". I find holding both round nose and jacketed HP to 1.150" cures that issue and still feeds well.



Feed angle from magazine to 'ramp' might be an issue with jackleted HP's.

The ramp has a rather sharp angle, and the flatter nose HP round kinda hits and rebounds upwards rather than being guided into the chamber.

I don't know if that will be a problem yet as I have not fired these Gold Dot bullets yet. I just loaded my first today. I will say that holding the OAL on them to 1.150" seems to let them cycle though just fine by hand, although there is a clear 'Ker-Klunk' of the bullet hitting the ramp then feeding into the chamber.



We shall see in a few days when I get to the range!

 

[MrApathy]

might look at Remington JHP's they have a excellent ball profile in 9mm and a nice cavity that doesnt clog like some other do.

1.150" is pretty much what I use.



+p has nothing to do with velocity. would avoid fast burning powders they can spike catastrophically.



try unique or powerpistol. powerpistol will give you the speed you want without the pressure.



some powders will spike dramatically with charge weight change



best powder to get speed easy with 9mm is powerpistol. 1300fps with 115gr is easy to attain with standard pressure. 124/125 can do 1250fps

this is within 35,000psi velocity has nothing to do with +p or p they are pressure ratings its pressure that blows up guns. powerpistol is known to be pretty safe all around not spiking wildly.



some people have pushed win231 to +p pressure the velocity is not great. it will spike if your not cafefull but its not as bad as some others. would forget reddot for any serious velocity you wont get it without serious and dangerous pressure.



proper method for working up loads is using .1 gr intervals and shooting the gun over a chronograph measuring the velocity high low average. then inspecting the brass. 9mm brass is tough pressure signs are not always easy to see. primers are a good sure way to spot trouble with pressure. soft primers will flow easily and may even burst. ie Federal is soft. hard example is CCI.



using rifle primers is way to keep high pressure loads from poping the primer but rifle primers require excellent working striker and springs to reliably go off.



lots of information on 9mm Major at http://www.brianenos.com forums they favor faster burning powders then again most of them have custom thousand dollar races guns with forged and highly hardened parts which can be good and bad hardened parts can go brittle and crack under constant hard stress.



powder lots will vary so most books,powder manufactures and handloaders recommend working up every load using .1 gr intervals. results will vary with different guns even guns of the same manufacture,model and QC tester.



even a gun with excellent chamber support can Kaboom difference may be the whole casehead comes off. which can become another dangerous projectile the extractor could fly off as well and other parts.



but if you want to put a square peg in a round hole go for its your gun and hand not mine

 

[jtaliani]

but if you want to put a square peg in a round hole go for it your gun and hand not mine

Just so you know, that quote is what tells me today is going to be a good day.

 

[Jester]

but if you want to put a square peg in a round hole

I've actually done that, and it does work...