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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know of any data showing the accuracy of a pistol changing after the gun has been shot enough for the barrel/gun to heat up? I know that it can be an issue with rifles. I am having trouble with my point of impact changing between trips to the range with my 9mm EZ. Today, I started shooting at 9 feet and my accuracy was quite good with tight groups. I shot a few more shots and then moved to 15 feet and 21 feet. My POI was off to the left by 2-3 inches. I moved back to 9 feet and I was also off by 2-3 inches. I was really making an effort to shoot accurately. My grip was strong. I ended up adjusting the rear sight a bit and then I was able to hit my target. I also have a laser on the gun and I have seen similar changes in accuracy using the laser. I have been through this dance several times with this gun and also with my 380 EZ.

What is your experience with the EZ pistols?

I don't have the same problem with my H&K VP9 so I don't believe it is something that I am doing.
 

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I don’t have a Shield EZ, but I have a Shield. Comparing a Shield to an HK VP9 is apples and oranges. The Shield is belly gun; not a duty or target gun. 2-3 inch accuracies are as good as most anyone could hope for. The coefficient of thermal expansion would not move your barrel enough to really notice a difference in that short distance. The repeatability of the barrel to the slide, or more precisely to the sights could cause it.

Or…it could just be you. :laughing:

I have to say if I was within 2-3 inches with my Shield; I was good to go. :yes
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Why are my groups tight but shift?

I don’t have a Shield EZ, but I have a Shield. Comparing a Shield to an HK VP9 is apples and oranges. The Shield is belly gun; not a duty or target gun. 2-3 inch accuracies are as good as most anyone could hope for. The coefficient of thermal expansion would not move your barrel enough to really notice a difference in that short distance. The repeatability of the barrel to the slide, or more precisely to the sights could cause it.

Does your Shield maintain its sighting from day to day?
The barrel length is very close between the 9EZ and the VP9. Perhaps the variability in the rest of the gun could be causing it. That is what I am trying to figure out.


Or…it could just be you. :laughing:

I have to say if I was within 2-3 inches with my Shield; I was good to go. :yes
I would be happy with 2-3 inch groups, which I am able to shoot, if the group didn't shift day to day or within the same day after shooting 50+ rounds.
 

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Do the same things over and over, no changes. Try dry firing and call your shots, or get a cheap laser (does it have a rail section?) and watch what happens when the trigger breaks.
 

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My wife just got an EZ 9 and I'm telling you, it shoots as tight of groups as my Q5 match at 7-10 yards. I'm a pretty good shot and I can get literally one ragged hole at 9 yards. I did notice that the rear sight was not perfectly centered when we first got it and I moved it to center and used blue Loc-Tite on the screw. I then replaced the front sight with a Hi-Viz for better contrast.

I would recommend you use some blue Loc-Tite on the rear sight screw and make sure it matches the position of the front sight.
Also, try using AE 124 grain ammo. It gives me my tightest groups.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My wife just got an EZ 9 and I'm telling you, it shoots as tight of groups as my Q5 match at 7-10 yards. I'm a pretty good shot and I can get literally one ragged hole at 9 yards. I did notice that the rear sight was not perfectly centered when we first got it and I moved it to center and used blue Loc-Tite on the screw. I then replaced the front sight with a Hi-Viz for better contrast.

I believe that this gun should be capable of tight and consistent groups. I have had several people tell me that I am expecting too much from it. It is not a "belly gun". As I said in a previous post, the front sight was off center so I had a gunsmith center it. I then centered the rear sight to match the front sight. I shot it and had good accurate groupings. After shooting for a while, the POI shifted. The sights were still visually centered. Why the change?

I just saw a review by Hickok45 and he said he had to adjust the sights on the 9mm EZ because it was hitting left.


I would recommend you use some blue Loc-Tite on the rear sight screw and make sure it matches the position of the front sight.
Also, try using AE 124 grain ammo. It gives me my tightest groups.
I am reluctant to use Loc-Tite until I can do further troubleshooting. Unlike my 380 EZ, the rear sight appears to stay where I put it. I am going to the range today. I want to make sure it isn't something that I am doing.

I don't believe that it is an ammo issue. My groups are tight. They just shift day to day or even within the same day after shooting for while. I will pick up some different ammo to see if it makes any difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Update

I normally clean and lube my firearms after every range session. I decided to remove one variable with my 9mm EZ and not clean the gun between trips to the range.

I shot the gun today and it seemed to be more accurate than it has been. I did not have to adjust the sights to get decent groups on target.

I shot about 100 rounds and didn't see as much variation as I have in the past. I am going to go back to the range soon and see if it remains more consistent and then I will clean it and try again.
 

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I normally clean and lube my firearms after every range session. I decided to remove one variable with my 9mm EZ and not clean the gun between trips to the range.

I shot the gun today and it seemed to be more accurate than it has been. I did not have to adjust the sights to get decent groups on target.

I shot about 100 rounds and didn't see as much variation as I have in the past. I am going to go back to the range soon and see if it remains more consistent and then I will clean it and try again.
I know it costs a little more, but American Eagle is one of the cleanest burning ammos out there and I find I do not have to clean it nearly as often as with other brands.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Update

I just bought a Ruger Charger that comes with a bipod that makes it really easy to shoot accurately.

I realized that I could put the bipod on the 9mm EZ to help in troubleshooting my inaccuracy problems.

I went to the range and tried it out on the EZ. It clearly showed that the gun is capable of much better precision that I am able to achieve by hand holding.

I am going to continue to test it over my next few range trips to see if it remains consistent.

I did have trouble getting good front sight focus when using the bipod. I had trouble getting the required shooting position when seated at the bench. My progressive lenses require me to raise my head quite a bit to get proper focus. I realized that some of my variation shooting with the bipod was proper sight picture.

The bottom line is that this gun is capable of shooting quite accurately. I think my H&K VP9 ergonomics fit me better and allow me to shoot it more accurately than the 9EZ.
 

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A red dot will cure that instantly, the accuracy problem that might be another thing entirely.

But you have the right idea, remove yourself from the equation to see what the gun alone will do. Boy, does it burn me up to see an "accuracy test" where the tester hand holds the firearm. Totally useless.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Update

A red dot will cure that instantly, the accuracy problem that might be another thing entirely.

I normally have a red dot on this gun. I had to remove it install the bipod.


But you have the right idea, remove yourself from the equation to see what the gun alone will do. Boy, does it burn me up to see an "accuracy test" where the tester hand holds the firearm. Totally useless.
I think it still is valid to assess accuracy when had holding. Some guns are easier to shoot accurately due to ergonomics, size, weight, etc.

I can shoot my VP9 better than I can shoot the 9 EZ. Maybe the VP9 is inherently more accurate, maybe it just fits me better, or maybe it is both.

I think the 9 EZ is capable of shooting with sufficient accuracy as a defensive weapon. I may just have to accept that I won't be able to use it at a target pistol and be happy with my results. That is why I enjoy shooting my new Ruger Charger. I can get <3 inch groups at 25 yards very easily.
 

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From a bench rest my Q5 match is definitely more accurate than either of my Shields. ( PC .40 and M2.0 .45 )
Unless I'm mistaken the 9mm EZ is not cut for a red dot.
I seriously don't think a clean gun is less accurate than a slightly dirty one.

Start eliminating variables. I would start by using the same ammo and shooting from a bench rest.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Update

From a bench rest my Q5 match is definitely more accurate than either of my Shields. ( PC .40 and M2.0 .45 )
Unless I'm mistaken the 9mm EZ is not cut for a red dot.
I seriously don't think a clean gun is less accurate than a slightly dirty one.

Start eliminating variables. I would start by using the same ammo and shooting from a bench rest.
The EZ is not cut for a red dot but I do have a Crimson Trace Laser on it. I had to remove the laser to install the bipod. My groups are definitely tighter with the laser and it sure makes it easier to see how stable I am. I shot using the bipod and a foam rest under the grip to get the best possible stability, short of a vise.

I have been working on my sight picture, stability and trigger control using the iTarget Pro laser system. I get that it doesn't capture issues with recoil but it does show that I am capable of shooting reasonably tight groups at about 18 feet. (see attached photo)
 

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You don't have to shoot live ammo to diagnose problems. It's actually easier when dry firing. Esp' with a laser. It can be done at home and costs nothing.
 

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The EZ is not cut for a red dot but I do have a Crimson Trace Laser on it. I had to remove the laser to install the bipod. My groups are definitely tighter with the laser and it sure makes it easier to see how stable I am. I shot using the bipod and a foam rest under the grip to get the best possible stability, short of a vise.

I have been working on my sight picture, stability and trigger control using the iTarget Pro laser system. I get that it doesn't capture issues with recoil but it does show that I am capable of shooting reasonably tight groups at about 18 feet. (see attached photo)
I put a red laserguard on my dad's .380 EZ. Definitely tightened his groups. I should have gotten the green one though.

I zero'ed it ( and all my pistols) using one of these.


https://www.ebay.com/p/1301744610?iid=352936186051&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=352936186051&targetid=878336889076&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9022836&poi=&campaignid=9423618915&mkgroupid=95235863706&rlsatarget=pla-878336889076&abcId=1141016&merchantid=137749476&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjKGf6_Ln5wIVwcDACh0hXwDtEAQYASABEgKHbPD_BwE
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Update

I have been looking at the Caldwell Pistolero to stabilize my pistols when sighting them in. My concern is that the benches at the range are too narrow to fit the sled. It would hang over the edges and probably wouldn't stay in place very well.
I will be going to an outdoor range soon. It has large concrete benches that would work very well. I want to shoot some of my firearms at greater distances since the indoor range tops out at 25 yards.

The outdoor range is a bit annoying to use. You have to tape your targets to wood frames, walk them out to your desired distance and stick the frame in holders. It is difficult to see your targets at the greater distances without an optic, so you have to wait until the next cease-fire to inspect your targets. They make you unload your firearms, lock the bolt open, remove the magazine and stand back from the firing line about 6 feet. They walk down the line and inspect all of the firearms. Their demeanor reminds me of WWII movies.
 

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I have been looking at the Caldwell Pistolero to stabilize my pistols when sighting them in.
This is simply my opinion, but don’t waste your time and money on Bipods, sleds and Pistol stabilizers.

Your Shield is not a target gun. So be realistic; it’s not going to do what a target gun does. How you shoot from any of those devices does not matter. What matters is how you shoot the gun in the stance you would be in, in a self defense shooting. Shoot five shot groups. Aim at the same point each time and don’t "chase" or compensate for the point of impact. If you can’t tighten the groups up to where they would be acceptable for a self defense gun; it doesn’t matter what happens with those other aid devices.

If you think it’s your gun, keep an eye out at the range for the guys that are drilling the centers out of the bull at a long distance. Most gun folks are happy to help others. Strike up a conversation and ask them to shoot your gun. Or ask at the counter. If you can get a qualified shooter to shoot your gun; you will have your answer.

If you want to target shoot; you need a target gun. I would suggest try a 6” 686 revolver. They are highly proven performer, available all over the place, and will outshoot any of the guns we are discussing here. Or if that is too big for you, maybe a Ruger Mark IV .22. They are great for trigger time and extremely accurate.
 

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I have been looking at the Caldwell Pistolero to stabilize my pistols when sighting them in. My concern is that the benches at the range are too narrow to fit the sled. It would hang over the edges and probably wouldn't stay in place very well.
I will be going to an outdoor range soon. It has large concrete benches that would work very well. I want to shoot some of my firearms at greater distances since the indoor range tops out at 25 yards.

The outdoor range is a bit annoying to use. You have to tape your targets to wood frames, walk them out to your desired distance and stick the frame in holders. It is difficult to see your targets at the greater distances without an optic, so you have to wait until the next cease-fire to inspect your targets. They make you unload your firearms, lock the bolt open, remove the magazine and stand back from the firing line about 6 feet. They walk down the line and inspect all of the firearms. Their demeanor reminds me of WWII movies.
A dedicated pistol rest works very well on small tables.
As for seeing your targets, for less than $50, you can get an inexpensive spotting scope and mount it on a tripod.
I'm an NRA Range Safety Officer and see people walk down range in front of loaded guns. This is just plain dangerous and stupid. We have rules posted against this and you are warned once and then booted. One shooting will shut the club down.
 

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Dittos.

Yeah, laid back it isn't and for good reason. Laid back at a range can get someone laid back cold on a slab, so safety, even if it's a bit demanding is for everyones safety (yours too) and not for convenience or speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Update

I get the requirement for strict rules at the range. The issue I have seen is more of an attitude problem. A lot of the RSO's are retired LEO and I am sure they are fed up with dealing with stupid people.

A problem I have seen at both the indoor and outdoor range is that they post written rules, but many new shooters don't understand what they are reading so they screw up. I have seen RSO's handle it differently. Some of them "bark" at the offender an can be very intimidating. Some of them quickly stop the offender and then calmly explain the rules and requirements. New shooters are less likely to return if they have a bad experience. It is already a stressful situation for new shooters. Being treated poorly will just about guarantee that they will not try again.

I made a suggestion about having a training video to some of the people working at the indoor range. They said that management doesn't want to do that. They are supposed to get personalized instruction, which is all but impossible when the single RSO is supposed to be watching 10 bays full of multiple shooters. They offer classes and personalized training but most people are not going to want to spend a lot of time and money signing up for classes. Many of the shooters that I see are in Reno from out of state (Commiefornia) for gambling and decide to go the the range for some fun.

I think that a short video demonstrating what is expected, going over the rules for firearm safety, and showing new shooters how to interact with the range and operating the target carriers would be helpful. New users are required to sign up on laptops and read and agree to all of the legal stuff.

I believe that newbies would appreciate a short training video that would explain and demonstrate everything, so they aren't walking in to a loud, stressful environment where they have no clue what to do.
 
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