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Discussion Starter #21
Update

This is simply my opinion, but don’t waste your time and money on Bipods, sleds and Pistol stabilizers.

Your Shield is not a target gun. So be realistic; it’s not going to do what a target gun does.

I am not expecting it to be a target gun. I do expect it to be consistent day to day. I am attempting to determine if it is an issue with my shooting abilities and/or or problems with the gun. Using these devices will help eliminate me from the equation.

How you shoot from any of those devices does not matter. What matters is how you shoot the gun in the stance you would be in, in a self defense shooting. Shoot five shot groups. Aim at the same point each time and don’t "chase" or compensate for the point of impact. If you can’t tighten the groups up to where they would be acceptable for a self defense gun; it doesn’t matter what happens with those other aid devices.

It does matter. If I cant get reasonably consistent groups when using one of those devices, it means that I am the problem.

I did not buy this gun to be only a defensive gun. A gun can be for self defense and be used for some fun at the range. As a defensive gun, I should be able to expect it to perform the same from day to day. I understand that it isn't capable of the same level of precision as a target gun. I can shoot my new Ruger Charger and my H&K VP9 with much better precision than the 9mm EZ. This tells me that I am capable of shooting accurately. Each of these guns fits and feels different and I think the VP9 ergonomics work better for me.

The EZ is primarily for my wife, who has arthritis and very weak hands. I am starting to have issues with arthritis as well and this gun may become more important to me in the future. I want to get it dialed in the best that I can so she can practice and gain confidence.


If you want to target shoot; you need a target gun. I would suggest try a 6” 686 revolver. They are highly proven performer, available all over the place, and will outshoot any of the guns we are discussing here. Or if that is too big for you, maybe a Ruger Mark IV .22. They are great for trigger time and extremely accurate.
I just bought a Ruger Charger. I rented a Mark IV and it was not different enough from my Ruger SR 22. The Charger is super easy to shoot accurately and it is loads of fun!
 

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I have been looking at the Caldwell Pistolero to stabilize my pistols when sighting them in. My concern is that the benches at the range are too narrow to fit the sled. It would hang over the edges and probably wouldn't stay in place very well.
I will be going to an outdoor range soon. It has large concrete benches that would work very well. I want to shoot some of my firearms at greater distances since the indoor range tops out at 25 yards.

The outdoor range is a bit annoying to use. You have to tape your targets to wood frames, walk them out to your desired distance and stick the frame in holders. It is difficult to see your targets at the greater distances without an optic, so you have to wait until the next cease-fire to inspect your targets. They make you unload your firearms, lock the bolt open, remove the magazine and stand back from the firing line about 6 feet. They walk down the line and inspect all of the firearms. Their demeanor reminds me of WWII movies.
That’s pretty much standard for any well run range, so what’s the problem?
 

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I just bought a Ruger Charger. I rented a Mark IV and it was not different enough from my Ruger SR 22. The Charger is super easy to shoot accurately and it is loads of fun!
Well, yeahhh. It's a bigger heavier gun and fired from the bipod...

A bigger heavier gun shows micro problems less because there is more mass that needs to be disturbed, so the potential for seeing the tiny problems that make a big difference in handgun shooting is lessened. The bipod does basically the same thing but in a bigger way by borrowing mass from the table and steadying everything up.
 

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Well, yeahhh. It's a bigger heavier gun and fired from the bipod...

A bigger heavier gun shows micro problems less because there is more mass that needs to be disturbed, so the potential for seeing the tiny problems that make a big difference in handgun shooting is lessened. The bipod does basically the same thing but in a bigger way by borrowing mass from the table and steadying everything up.
There’s that.
And then of course there’s the fact that…. it’s a 10-22 rifle. That I’m guessing’ now has a bi-pod on it. :yes
:laughing:
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Update

I had a RTFM (read the f**king manual) moment with my Charger. When I first installed the barrel, I did as the manual said in the "Installing the Barrel Assembly" section. I loosened the knob, inserted the barrel, and tightened the knob. Like a dumbass, I didn't keep reading. I finally read the full manual. It had a new section after the install section - "Removing the Barrel Assembly". On the next page it said to remove the barrel and then tighten the knob two clicks. I did this and it does fit more snuggly.

I went to the range today and discovered that tightening the barrel made a huge difference. I had previously sighted it in at 25 yards. I was now 5-6 inches high and 3-4 inches to the left. I was surprised that it changed that much. I dialed it back in and can get very tight, accurate groups.

I let the RSO shoot it and he was impressed with the accuracy. He shot the paper target. There were some small chips of wood on the backstop at 25 yards and he was easily able to nail them. He said - "This thing is a tack driver!"
 

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I would be happy with 2-3 inch groups, which I am able to shoot, if the group didn't shift day to day or within the same day after shooting 50+ rounds.
It is not unusual to have groups shift/deteriorate toward the end of a shooting session, especially with a small pistol. Fatique may set in and cause errors in grip and sighting ability.
 

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I have been looking at the Caldwell Pistolero to stabilize my pistols when sighting them in.
This is simply my opinion, but don’t waste your time and money on Bipods, sleds and Pistol stabilizers.

Your Shield is not a target gun. So be realistic; it’s not going to do what a target gun does. How you shoot from any of those devices does not matter. What matters is how you shoot the gun in the stance you would be in, in a self defense shooting. Shoot five shot groups. Aim at the same point each time and don’t "chase" or compensate for the point of impact. If you can’t tighten the groups up to where they would be acceptable for a self defense gun; it doesn’t matter what happens with those other aid devices.

If you think it’s your gun, keep an eye out at the range for the guys that are drilling the centers out of the bull at a long distance. Most gun folks are happy to help others. Strike up a conversation and ask them to shoot your gun. Or ask at the counter. If you can get a qualified shooter to shoot your gun; you will have your answer.

If you want to target shoot; you need a target gun. I would suggest try a 6” 686 revolver. They are highly proven performer, available all over the place, and will outshoot any of the guns we are discussing here. Or if that is too big for you, maybe a Ruger Mark IV .22. They are great for trigger time and extremely accurate.
I agree 100% with this comment. This is strictly my opinion, but as a defensive pistol instructor it blows my mind that you would need to use a secondary device to shoot a good group with anything other than what your mother gave you. Sounds like properly recycling your trigger and proper grip and site alignment would go father.

Regarding the initial post about a hot barrel and the follow up comment about a clean bore. I haven’t noticed a large enough change in effective groups to care while shooting a defensive pistol. Hopefully you’ll only need on magazine on a cold barrel.

However I am a firm believer that a little bit of fouling goes a long way. Usually after a long day of teaching defensive pistol class I just forget to clean my pistol; and this is bad, yes, but I just cleaned my main carry piece for the first time in a year. And that’s after two or three classes a month. Horrible I know. But I can still knock the top off a Gatorade bottle at 5-6 yards while doing movement drills. So I’d say I’m more effective with fouling.

The odd thing is that it really wasn’t that dirty. I guess my memory’s of cleaning baked on carbon off an M240B, M249, or an M4 after days of shooting thousands of rounds offsets my desire to clean my pistol after only shooting 50-100 rnds a couple times a month. I’m ok with that.
 

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I always "test" pistols/ammo off hand. That's how I'll be shooting them, off hand. Might be standing, might be sitting in the car, might be on the ground, but the pistol won't have a rest under it unless I happen to be hiding behind something when I have to shoot it.

I carry my P07 all the time. When I go to the range to test another pistol or new ammo and start wondering if it's the pistol/ammo or me I pull the CZ P07 out and shoot a group and it shows me whether it's me or the new gun/ammo.

Have you heard of the Mantis X? Clamps to your pistol's light/laser rail, blue tooth connects to your cell phone, analyzes your trigger pull/technique to let you know if you're doing something wrong. I bought a couple of them a year or so ago and gave one to my youngest son to try out.

https://mantisx.com/

Oh, my wife's 9MM Shield does not have any issues. More accurate than either of my full sized 9MM M&Ps. At least at 7 to 12 yds. No repeatability issues range trip to range trip.

My mom's M&P .380 EZ doesn't wander around on the paper either. Not as accurate (with any ammo we've tried so far) as the Shield 9MM, but good enough for mom.
 
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