[tamworth]

OK when I've got the sights aligned, do I cover my target with the dot of the front sight, or do I imagine a nickel-sized bullseye just above the dot of the front sight? In the military handgun manual it illustrates te second technique, but I've heard that with some guns you have to cover the bullseye with the front sight. I'm no-way-near skilled enough to determine from shooting, and barring having it checked, does anyone here know off hand which aiming type the M&P9 is? Thanks

 

[G56]

Point of impact is very personal, it will vary somewhat from person to person, that's why its important to find out where it shoots when YOU shoot it.



What you need to do is find out where your pistol impacts when you are shooting it, this will tell you if the impact point is right at the top of the front sight, or a little up from it. Most are set up for point of aim, the "6 o'clock hold" is mainly for target shooting.

 

[ToddG]

Concur with G56. Most guns today come sighted in for a POA=POI hold. I always drive the dot, except at very long (100yd+) distances where the front sight completely obscures the target and its location. At those distances you need to start accounting for bullet drop, anyway, so a traditional quick sight picture won't really work ... at least not for me.

 

[coltman1985]

Second one is the norm, put more lead down range and it will "come" to you!

 

[BateleurRGB]

I might add, it also depends on how far away your target is.



The bullet does not travel in a straight line--it arcs--whereas your line of sight is (ideally) straight. Assuming the weapon is sighted in, the arc of the bullets path meets the line of sight at two points (zeros). At these zeros, the point of aim will match the point of impact when the weapon is fired with perfect accuracy (as from a mechanical rest). Nearer or farther than these points, the point of impact will be higher or lower than the point of aim. The sighting will also vary with ammunition (i.e. lighter, faster bullets shoot flatter).



For example--the way my M&P 40 is sighted (and the way I shoot when I am having a good day), the PoA = PoI @ 7 yards. PoI is somewhat lower if I am shooting darn close (e.g. 3 yards), somewhat higher at 15-25 yards, back to zero at maybe 40 yards, and naturally gets much lower at extreme ranges (for a pistol) like 100 yards. Another way to put it is this: if I hold my aim at the center of a bullseye at 7 yards, I will hit the center, but to hit the center at 25 yards I hold at 6 o'clock.



Your experience may vary depending on how your sights are installed/adjusted, but where the bullet impacts relative to where you hold your sights will vary with the range at which you are shooting and the type of ammunition you are using.

 

[mark5pt56]

I might add, it also depends on how far away your target is.



The bullet does not travel in a straight line--it arcs--whereas your line of sight is (ideally) straight. Assuming the weapon is sighted in, the arc of the bullets path meets the line of sight at two points (zeros). At these zeros, the point of aim will match the point of impact when the weapon is fired with perfect accuracy (as from a mechanical rest). Nearer or farther than these points, the point of impact will be higher or lower than the point of aim. The sighting will also vary with ammunition (i.e. lighter, faster bullets shoot flatter).



For example--the way my M&P 40 is sighted (and the way I shoot when I am having a good day), the PoA = PoI @ 7 yards. PoI is somewhat lower if I am shooting darn close (e.g. 3 yards), somewhat higher at 15-25 yards, back to zero at maybe 40 yards, and naturally gets much lower at extreme ranges (for a pistol) like 100 yards. Another way to put it is this: if I hold my aim at the center of a bullseye at 7 yards, I will hit the center, but to hit the center at 25 yards I hold at 6 o'clock.



Your experience may vary depending on how your sights are installed/adjusted, but where the bullet impacts relative to where you hold your sights will vary with the range at which you are shooting and the type of ammunition you are using.

+1 As stated, shoot YOUR Pistol with the ammunition you carry and practice with at various ranges to check these things. Also remember to shoot offhand to get a true read after using a rest.



Mark

 

[243ww]

Get it on some sand bags and shoot it out to about 10m onto a nice target. Aim at the same point; say centre and shoot say 3 shots. See where they go… Do the same off hand… this should tell you the POA. High, Low etc… 8)



I find that you must remember where you are aiming for the first shot as subsequent shots may need to be compensated for due to the POA.

:wink:



Knowing where the shots are going...













3 shots to take it out. 200m .243 85grHPBT 4x12x40 Bushnell. Bipod on bench.



I know it's not sniper material but I knew where to make the adjustments. You need to know where you are shooting before anything else. IMO

:wink:

 

[Walker]

I have been struggling lately with finding POA and the POI at distance. I would like to know from what distance should I start and end and the interval between each stage, or step.

 

[m4arc]

I might add, it also depends on how far away your target is.



The bullet does not travel in a straight line--it arcs--whereas your line of sight is (ideally) straight. Assuming the weapon is sighted in, the arc of the bullets path meets the line of sight at two points (zeros). At these zeros, the point of aim will match the point of impact when the weapon is fired with perfect accuracy (as from a mechanical rest). Nearer or farther than these points, the point of impact will be higher or lower than the point of aim. The sighting will also vary with ammunition (i.e. lighter, faster bullets shoot flatter).



For example--the way my M&P 40 is sighted (and the way I shoot when I am having a good day), the PoA = PoI @ 7 yards. PoI is somewhat lower if I am shooting darn close (e.g. 3 yards), somewhat higher at 15-25 yards, back to zero at maybe 40 yards, and naturally gets much lower at extreme ranges (for a pistol) like 100 yards. Another way to put it is this: if I hold my aim at the center of a bullseye at 7 yards, I will hit the center, but to hit the center at 25 yards I hold at 6 o'clock.



Your experience may vary depending on how your sights are installed/adjusted, but where the bullet impacts relative to where you hold your sights will vary with the range at which you are shooting and the type of ammunition you are using.

Good post!

 

[243ww]

I have been struggling lately with finding POA and the POI at distance. I would like to know from what distance should I start and end and the interval between each stage, or step.

I am only new to the pistol thing and can only relate my struggle to your cry for help…



I tend to aim at the centre and see where it hits. Like I was saying, you got to know where your first point of aim is on the sights. Distances from 3m out to 20m will not change the POI from the POA enough to worry about as the Prodgy is going fast enough to not experience any great curve. Yea it will drop but you won’t be able to tell.



My opinion; start close as you want or expect to be and see where it hits, take the target out to your most distant range, say for comps or CCW-SD and do the same… Any where in-between will hit between the close points and further points.



Like I said, new to the pistol thing but it’s worked fine for rifle work.

Hope it helps mate.

 

[243ww]

I might add, it also depends on how far away your target is.



The bullet does not travel in a straight line--it arcs--whereas your line of sight is (ideally) straight. Assuming the weapon is sighted in, the arc of the bullets path meets the line of sight at two points (zeros). At these zeros, the point of aim will match the point of impact when the weapon is fired with perfect accuracy (as from a mechanical rest). Nearer or farther than these points, the point of impact will be higher or lower than the point of aim. The sighting will also vary with ammunition (i.e. lighter, faster bullets shoot flatter).



For example--the way my M&P 40 is sighted (and the way I shoot when I am having a good day), the PoA = PoI @ 7 yards. PoI is somewhat lower if I am shooting darn close (e.g. 3 yards), somewhat higher at 15-25 yards, back to zero at maybe 40 yards, and naturally gets much lower at extreme ranges (for a pistol) like 100 yards. Another way to put it is this: if I hold my aim at the center of a bullseye at 7 yards, I will hit the center, but to hit the center at 25 yards I hold at 6 o'clock.



Your experience may vary depending on how your sights are installed/adjusted, but where the bullet impacts relative to where you hold your sights will vary with the range at which you are shooting and the type of ammunition you are using.

Quite right

Only a small variation over short distances. I shoot in field pistol and we shoot out to 100m with .22 pistols, total waist of time. 10-25m the POA and POI is as you say, but very slight, I would say about 1” or so. Target and score wise important.

 

[ToddG]

I have been struggling lately with finding POA and the POI at distance. I would like to know from what distance should I start and end and the interval between each stage, or step.

My advice: take a 3x5 card and slow fire 5 rounds at 3yd. If all the shots hit the card, put up a new card and move back to 4yd. Repeat until you can't go 5-for-5 on the card. (if you were shooting a TDA pistol, I'd recommend six shot groups, firing three DA/SA pairs)



Use the same POA for all shots. When you reach a distance where you start to have misses, slow down and put more concentration into your sight alignment, trigger manipulation, and other fundamentals.



I did some shooting today ranging from 3yd to 50yd. With the particular ammo I was shooting (115gr FMJ Blazer) I could use the white dot out to 15yd. At 25yd, POI was at the top edge of my front sight. By the time I was at 50yd, the white dot was once again a good aiming point. What this means for me is that I'll just use the white dot ... being a couple inches high at 25yd is only going to matter if I'm shooting slow bullseye type stuff, in which case I'll have the time and ability to slow down and be much more conscious about my point of aim. Or I could just aim two inches low, I suppose.

 

[243ww]

My advice: take a 3x5 card and slow fire 5 rounds at 3yd. If all the shots hit the card, put up a new card and move back to 4yd. Repeat until you can't go 5-for-5 on the card. (if you were shooting a TDA pistol, I'd recommend six shot groups, firing three DA/SA pairs)



Use the same POA for all shots. When you reach a distance where you start to have misses, slow down and put more concentration into your sight alignment, trigger manipulation, and other fundamentals.

Sounds like good avice 8) I'll try that.

 

[ToddG]

Another variation of the same idea: 3x5 card drill



For the masochistic among us: Dot Torture drill

 

[243ww]

Another variation of the same idea: 3x5 card drill



For the masochistic among us: Dot Torture drill

Thanks Todd. That's quite a work out.

 

[gringop]

Another variation of the same idea: 3x5 card drill



For the masochistic among us: Dot Torture drill

I use the dot torture everytime I go to the range but I use 3" dots on 2 sheets of paper and increase the range a bit. To me, it is the best all around drill out there. Only 50 rounds and you can sure see what skills you need to work on.

Gringop

 

[ToddG]

I shoot the Dot Torture drill about once a month. It's a great test of fundamentals but without a speed/time component it's really just measuring accuracy and patience.

 

[molonlabetn]

My M&P 357 requires a center-hold aim. 6 o'clock hold shoots an inch low at 15yd.