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Realized my post was stupidly long, so I'll sum up.

The only DocGKR post I saw specifically denouncing CD was made from a 1 7/8" .38 Special, where the bare gel had mediocre expansion and the denim failed to expand.

Apples, meet oranges.

I have yet to see the actual results of the tests on 9mm and 40, though I did see mention of the intent to test, but saw no results, except that as of February '13, Critical Duty 220 gr +P was added to the .45 ACP list. I understand that Doc does not update the list with EVERY type of ammo that doesn't make the list, and this is not irrevokable proof that ALL CD (whichever variety) ammo will reliably penetrate between 12-18" across all cartridges or across all platforms, but it does lend some credence to the bullet design.

While DocGKR's list is by far the most inclusive list of SD ammo, it is not the be-all end-all list. Not looking to stir the pot, I just haven't seen Doc's tests on CD in a 9mm or .40 S&W automatic, so I can't rightly say that it isn't effective. . .then again I can't rightly say that it is, either. Would I take it over FMJ? Yes. Am I waiting for some Fed HST to be delivered? HELL yes.

I am not a Hornady fan-boy and I have no brand loyalty when it comes to protecting myself and my family. Like the OP, I'm new to this and I got what was available and what I had seen some tests on. Frankly, I don't care if it's made in Slobovia and looks like crap, if it feeds and fires without blowing my face up and penetrates reliably, I'm good with it.
+1...

Besides, in the real world of "terminal effectiveness", the only ammo that effectively incapacitates an adversary is ammo that happens to strike the CNS. Even when punched straight through the heart, people have been known to keep shooting back for close to a minute.

I do know that I can fire every bit of 75 rounds of ammo on MY person, and grab another 20 off somebody else, and put THAT down range too in under a minute!

Ammo brand selection comes somewhere between low-consequence and irrelevant in the reality of a gun fight.

"I'm not worried about getting shot by HIM... he has Critical Defense brand ammo in his gun!" - Said by nobody ever


What DOES matter?

The ability to make a hit to the spine, or into the head, as quickly as possible. The only shot that stops a fight NOW is one that turns off the signal to the trigger finger of your opponent (brain hit). The next best option is taking out his ability to move (spine hit).

Regardless of ammo brand, design, or manufacture date...

If you can't shoot tight groups under pressure, with speed, while moving... it's all dumb luck.

JeffWard
 
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Thanks for verifying the difference. I know those CD's are a buck a piece. I will look at other options.

And I never get offended. I'm here looking for answers like most, and trying to pass it on when I can. :)

Here we go again. I have used all of the above. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hornady Critical Defense. It costs more which is one reason that I primarily run Federal HST. A lot of folks on this forum don't shoot their self defense ammo real regularly. I do. I run a couple of mags through on every range trip. Back during the ammo shortage, the only thing that I could get my hands on was either Critical Duty or Critical Defense and I bought it. It ran just fine. The only problem they I have with it is the costs. I generally use either Federal or Winchester as I can usually find them at much better prices. Don't del bad.
I didn't realize that's what he was asking. Lets take another look.



So, don't be insulted, you just read the OP's request incorrectly.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I haven't had any issues with the critical defence rounds so guess I'll just stick with that, maybe try the other to see if I can fee/see a difference, hopefuly I'll never have to use'em
 

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I haven't had any issues with the critical defence rounds so guess I'll just stick with that, maybe try the other to see if I can fee/see a difference, hopefuly I'll never have to use'em
I hope you don't either haha. I am using it because it was available when I purchased my handgun, as soon as I make sure my new SD rounds feed properly I will swap them out because I like the expansion properties of the HSTs a lot better.

If you want to see gel tests look up tnoutdoors9 on youtube (thanks TX Bill for reminding me). He does a bare gel 9mm and denim 40 S&W, and both have acceptable penetration in his limited, one round tests.

Keep in mind the standardized FBI tests do not score expansion over penetration. I'll link that when I get home if I remember =P
 

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.....just want to make sure I'll be able to stop someone in their tracks SHOULD (GOD forbid) something happened...
The only way to assure that is use a howitzer. No pistol round by any maker in any caliper can guarantee that it will stop an attacker all the time. There is a lot of folk lore but it doesn't stand up to detailed analysis.

The fact that there are numerous brand of "premium" self-defense ammunition on the market should tell us that none of them is obviously and always superior to all the other or it would have the market to itself. So, a search will turn up wonderful stories of lightening-bolt stops and dismal failures by any make and model of ammo.
 

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Apples, meet oranges.
When you invoked "Apples and Oranges" I found it hard to believe you hadn't already seen DocGKR's analysis of those 2 loads. One thing you'll notice is that the .38 Special narrowly misses passing FBI testing protocol for bare gelatin but scores with heavy clothing (a.k.a. 4 layers of denim), while 9mm falls short on both tests by a larger margin:

38 Special 110 gr. FTX™ (90310)



38 Special+P 110 gr. FTX™ (90311)



9MM Luger 115 gr. FTX™ (90250)

 

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Dang. Yeah I couldn't find the 9mm results I had only seen one on .38spl through a snub nose. Like shootingthebull410 discovered, one brand/type may work awesome in one caliber (HPR .380) and not do so well in another (HPR 9mm) even in similar platforms (3" barrels in his case). I was never impressed by CD's expansion but in the tests that I have seen (not DocGKR) they got to 15".

Where were those results posted, by the way? I'd love to see comprehensive results as opposed to the usual ar15.com article's suggested loadings. I'll be doing some more homework once I get off work tonight for sure =)
 

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You might want to take a look at Black Hills Honey Badger 115 grain for S&W 40. I carry them in both my M&P's. There are video reviews online for this ammo. I've also used Hornady Critical Defense which I had no problems with.
 
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