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Discussion Starter #1
Well I finally had the chance to shoot my M&P 45 today that I have been sitting on for over a week. I purchased the model with a thumb safety, without a mag disconnect and with standard sights. I purchased the gun because I liked the way it fit my hand and I am looking to possibly replace the Glock 21 in my duty holster. First and foremost to address the issues everyone seems to be having with their 45's:



1. The finish on my sample is top notch. The interior and exterior of the slide are free of machine marks, the finish is evenly applied and the extractor looks good.



2. The trigger out of the box was crap. It was creepy and heavy with a barley perceptible reset. I don't have anything to measure it with, but I would guess the trigger was in the 9 pound range. I knew I could easily and cheaply get this fixed, so I didn't let it deter me. Lo and behold, after hundreds of dry fires and the 400 rounds I put downrange today, the trigger has lightened up and the reset is much more positive. The trigger is now maybe a touch heavier than my Glock 21 I took along for comparison, but it breaks cleanly and feels better.



3. With the slide locked back I could insert a fully loaded magazine with a moderate amount of force and the slide would release on its own. Some folks don't mind this, and generally I would agree. However, I had some issues with this pistol. More on that later.



So, I cleaned and lubed it as the instructions specified and took it to the range with 500 rounds of mixed Winchester White Box 230gr. hardball, Federal American Eagle 230gr. hardball and Federal HST 230gr.+p JHP. Let me say up front that I LOVED the way the gun shot. Recoil was as good or better than my G21, which is the lightest recoiling 45 I have shot. Accuracy was fantastic. I did not have a rest and the light at the indoor range I used was very uneven, which made the sights hard to pickup at times. That being said, 10 shot groups from 10 yards and in were touching. At 25 yards I was able to keep 10 shot groups within four inches with a two handed, unsupported hold. I'm not the greatest shot around, but that is as good as I can do with any gun I have fired including my 1911's and beloved SIG P220.



But, all was not well in my world. I only got through 400 rounds and had several failures. I contacted S&W customer service and they are having me send it back to check it out. Here is the note I am sending detailing the troubles (not quite a direct quote):



To whom it may concern,



blah, blah, blah...However, I had two issues with the pistol:



1. If the slide was locked to the rear and I seated a fully loaded magazine with any moderate amount of force, the slide would close without my having released it. This would not be a big deal except that twice a round did not enter the chamber despite the magazine being fully seated. The slide closed on an empty chamber. If the magazine had ten rounds in it, I could make the slide close by seating the mag with relatively little force. It the magazine had only a few rounds in it (three or so) I had to really slam it home to make the slide close on its own.





2. I experienced four failures to feed. While firing a magazine, a round would enter the chamber and get stuck halfway in so that the slide could not go into battery. One failure was with the Winchester White Box and the other three were with Federal American Eagle. The failures happened between 270 and 350 rounds and each magazine had two failures. There was not any pattern that I could see in the failures (first or last round of the magazine, etc.). The gun (especially the feed ramp) was quite dirty after 300 rounds, but I was expecting that I could get more rounds downrange than that before experiencing failures.





I contacted Jeff at Smith and Wesson Customer Service he said to send it in and have it looked at. I really enjoyed shooting the M&P and feel it could easily replace the Glock 21 in my duty holster if I can get these issues straightened out.



Thank you for your attention.




I liked the way the M&P handled much better than the G21. It reminded my of my P220 in a lot of ways, but with better capacity and a finish that hopefully wont rust if you look at it wrong like my SIG does. Hopefully Smith can get it straightened out. I know I am looking forward to putting another couple hundred rounds through it when I get it back to find out if it's fixed.
 

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Very good and detailed post! I'm standing by to hear how things turn out for you. The M&P45 is next on my "to buy" list.
 

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very nice write up. I will want to hear the post repair report. I have 2 45's one is mine (ALL MINE) the other is the wife's (she let me shoot it once
)
 

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I am watching this M&P forum, in particular this post because I have a 40 S&W M&P and really want a 45 ACP M&P, but, I'm holding off until I am confinced they have the bugs worked out (pistol finish and reliability).
 

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See my post under QUALITY. I experienced the same problem and sent the gun back. S&W replaced the extractor and the gun is now 100% reliable, their turn around time was very fast.
 

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Excellent post. If S&W treats you as well as they did me with a 9MM problem you will be up and running with all problems solved in very short order. My 9MM problem was actualy a CCI Aluminum Case Ammo caused problem that S&W graciously fixed.



My M&P9 and M&P40 have a combined total of 6000 + rounds at this point. They have never failed to function properly and do not have one speck of rust.



I also look forward to hearing about the succesful solution to your problem.



Enjoy



:twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
OK, dropped it off at UPS July 16 and it was back on my doorstep on July 24th. The note says Smith made a "barrel modification", "replaced slide stop", and it was "tested and passed". Some lucky sucker tested the crap out of it. It is about as dirty as it was after I put several hundred rounds through it. Not sure what the barrel modification was. I don't have another M&P to check them out side by side and I don't see anything obvious. I am certainly pleased with the turn around time. I really have to slam a mag in to get the slide to drop on its own now, so I am hoping he feeding problem is also fixed. I'm looking forward to putting it through its passes again to find out. Maybe by the time I am confident in it there will be a larger selection of duty holsters for the M&P...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, I sure hope I have a lemon and my experience is not representative of all M&P 45's. Reading posts here, I believe my gun is a fluke, but you guys had better keep an eye on yours...



I finally got a chance to go to the range this weekend since S&W returned my gun. I put another 300 rounds of 230gr hardball through the M&P (Winchester White Box, Federal American Eagle and Blazer Brass). I had two failures to feed. The first failure occurred on the third round that I attempted to fire (third round into the first magazine). The second failure occurred about 240 rounds in and was the ninth round in a different magazine. So, I decide the gun is probably going back to S&W. It certainly isn't going in my duty holster. I am really disappointed because it still shot incredibly well. It is like the accuracy and ergonomics of my beloved P220 have been combined with the soft shooting nature of a Glock 21.



So, I take it home to clean and inspect it to make sure I can't see anything obviously wrong. When I pulled the slide off a little black piece fell out into my hand. It was a tiny little piece of black and silver metal. Looking closer, I could see that the right rear guide rail has broken completely off!



Obviously mine is going back to S&W. I could not see any obvious signs of stress on the other three rails.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Pics

Thought you all might like some pics.



















I did not see this while looking at the pistol, but it in the last pic it looks like the left rear guide rail was chipping as well. I have sent the gun back to S&W so I can not inspect it to verify. This is after about 700 rounds of factory ammunition. No more than 20 rounds of +p (Federal HST 230gr +p) had been fired through this gun.



I want the M&P to work so bad. It feels great in my hand and it shoots very well. I am just not sure if my faith will ever be restored after this.
 

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Thanks for the pictures. What a bummer.....

I can appreciate your lack of confidence in this weapon.
 

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"Z",



I haven't experienced a broken rail (yet), but I share some of your pain. If I clean and lube just right, I might get three rounds fired, before experiencing a FRTB. Mine started out of the box with a 3:1 failure:feed ratio. Multiple cleanings, magazine tear-down-and-lightly oil, etc. did improve it, but it's never gotten though a complete magazine without a hang up on feeding (multiple brands of factory ball). I've waited to try new magazines (arrived yesterday) to post, hoping that would be the cure-all, but alas, at 200 rounds, the M&P only extends its margin of "least reliable, ever".



Oddly enough, if you take away the frustration of having to constantly clear it, it is the most enjoyable and accurate non-1911 .45 I have ever shot. Unfortunately, my faith is not easily restored in a defensive weapon, once it's proven problematic... I'll give it a couple hundred more rounds to straighten up; that's all. I reserve trips to the factory for conscience clearing, before selling a problem to someone else.



I do hope we are both posting miraculous recoveries in the near future!
 

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incogneato said:
"Z",



I haven't experienced a broken rail (yet), but I share some of your pain. If I clean and lube just right, I might get three rounds fired, before experiencing a FRTB. Mine started out of the box with a 3:1 failure:feed ratio. Multiple cleanings, magazine tear-down-and-lightly oil, etc. did improve it, but it's never gotten though a complete magazine without a hang up on feeding (multiple brands of factory ball). I've waited to try new magazines (arrived yesterday) to post, hoping that would be the cure-all, but alas, at 200 rounds, the M&P only extends its margin of "least reliable, ever".



Oddly enough, if you take away the frustration of having to constantly clear it, it is the most enjoyable and accurate non-1911 .45 I have ever shot. Unfortunately, my faith is not easily restored in a defensive weapon, once it's proven problematic... I'll give it a couple hundred more rounds to straighten up; that's all. I reserve trips to the factory for conscience clearing, before selling a problem to someone else.



I do hope we are both posting miraculous recoveries in the near future!


S&W will pay for the 2 way trip to the factory. I strongly suggest you give them a call and send it in to them. Passing on a faulty weapon is something I would NOT want to do. Just my opinion...



t6
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think that is what incogneato is saying. He plans to send it back to the factory to get fixed before selling it.
 

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incogneato said:
"Z",



I reserve trips to the factory for conscience clearing, before selling a problem to someone else.



I do hope we are both posting miraculous recoveries in the near future!


Just re-read...my bad! :oops:
 

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I am sorry my posting was a bit confusing; I just meant that I also historically find it hard to ever re-gain lost confidence in an unreliable defense weapon. Perhaps a better way to say it would have been "I'm not sure if I'll ever trust it, but I would have to send it to the factory before I could even consider selling it to someone else (in addition to fully disclosing my experience with it). Even at that, 98Z28's experience concenrns me that warranty repair does not neccessarily result in a trouble-free weapon". We do all agree... "Passing on a faulty weapon is something [we] would NOT want to do"!



On a brighter note, I did some research on causes to FTRB, without specifying M&P, and found extractors being noted as a possible problem area. A quick inspection revealed there was a bit of "drag" against the frame, which was reduced with a couple of drops of Militec 1. The result?- A single FTRB @ 30 rounds, attributed to residue collecting under the extractor "hook", secondary to lubricant seepage. A quick clean-up of that, and the only other problem I had was not having enough ammo with me to see how long it could go!



So, 98Z28, any word on yours, yet?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
It's still at Smith, so no info yet. I do plan on making sure it runs when I get it back. I am still undecided as to whether I will keep it once I decide it is reliable. I really do not want to give up on this gun because S&W got just about everything right. My only issue is reliability. I have come to trust my Glock 21 with my life, but it just does not fit me like the M&P does. But, if it doesn't go bang when I need it too, fit is not really a concern. I can train to be proficient with any gun that is reliable and accurate.
 
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