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Discussion Starter #1
I've been practicing my trigger pull with more dry firing. Trying to get that smooth pull and proper grip into some sort of memory.



One quick question. When I pull the trigger, as the trigger "fires" the gun wiggles just a wee bit, I can see it in the front sight. I don't think it's my finger moving it, and it's VERY slight. It almost seems the result of the moving bits in the pistol more than my finger, but it's probably that my finger has a hard time going straight back with just the first joint on the trigger. So the trigger pull isn't straight back.



I've practiced trying to rid myself of this little wiggle, and have been unable to. I've done my best to pull the trigger from various angles, and the only way I rid myself of this is to put my trigger finger into the guard further and pull with my second joint. I know this is mostly thought of as bad.



Thoughts or advice?
 

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Try using the pad of your trigger finger, before your first joint, and pull back straight. Try also locking your weak hand wrist so that your left thumb just barely rests on the dustcover to counteract trigger tourque going to the left. Hope this helps.
 

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steve -- It's you, not the gun parts. Sorry man. :wink:



It will come with practice. You can certainly work on finger placement, but mostly it's just a matter of repetitions. Go slower. Constant pressure straight back is what you want. Be aware of your whole hand, not just your trigger finger. Changing your grip as you pull, or moving your wrist, squeezing or heeling all can make the sight move at the moment of the trigger break.



Are you using an aiming point when you dry fire? For perfecting trigger manipulation I'd recommend against it. I use the Wall Drill with students all the time and it definitely makes a difference.
 

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Steve,



I had the same problem. It wasn't me it was

the grips. The medium ones felt really good but the

gun moved very slightly to the right when I squeezed

the trigger. I switched to the large grips which don't

feel as good and it doesn't happen anymore.



Zeke
 

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ZB338 said:
Steve,



I had the same problem. It wasn't me it was

the grips. The medium ones felt really good but the

gun moved very slightly to the right when I squeezed

the trigger. I switched to the large grips which don't

feel as good and it doesn't happen anymore.



Zeke


Good thinking! The larger grip pushes your finger out more... Have to remember that one... Thanks
 

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I've noticed it too and attribute it to the small internal parts movement that cannot be avoided. I notice it does it less when there is a snap cap in the chamber and most importantly, that slight movement isn't yanking the round off target with live fire. I have confirmed over the past 11 months and 3,000+ rounds this year that it doesn't negatively effect accuracy. Trust me, I made SSP Master in IDPA within the first three months of owning my M&P9. Don't sweat it and keep practicing with both dry fire and live ammo.



-B
 

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The only thing that moves internally when the trigger breaks is the striker; there is no way it has enough momentum to upset your sight picture.



And while a tiny amount of front sight misalignment may not impact combat accuracy (or IDPA accuracy), it certainly does have an effect. Also, if the misalignment is consistent in one direction (e.g., always jumps to the 9 o'clock position) it can help you diagnose problems with your trigger manipulation that can lead to missed shots even in IDPA. A little trigger jerk here and there usually means -1/C-zone hits once in a while that were otherwise avoidable.
 

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This is quite old but it may help???










No reflection on my age :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I've been using a spot on my wall to practice against, just so I can notice the sight movement.



I'll try the larger grips, they feel better to me, but harder to get a solid grip I thought.



Also with the trigger finger, I've tried the tip, the pad, and the first joint, all three give the problem. The 2nd-pad or 2nd-joint no issues. It's almost as if my finger needs to be bent out/right (right handed) to get the pad on the trigger too far to really pull straight back.



Is there any issue using the 2nd joint? Most seem to recommend against it.



The movement is VERY slight, and only when the trigger has been cocked. Without that resistance, the gun stays very stable.



I'll keep practicing. Thanks!
 

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Odds are it's just upset when the trigger actually breaks; you go from 4-7 pounds of resistance to no resistance, and your finger moves just enough left or right during the overtravel. The smaller the movement, the less it will show up in terms of accuracy.



I'd recommend using a blank part of the wall instead of a spot on the wall. This lets you focus on your front sight and nothing but your front sight.



Generally, using the second joint of your finger is a bad idea; it's almost impossible to move it straight forward and backwards without side-to-side movement. However, as with anything, if it works for you, it works. It might cause you to hit a brick wall in your development down the road, though.
 

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I noticed this also when I was dryfiring...the front sight would nudge to three o'clock at the break. After a standard trigger job by our esteemed Mr. Burwell, it doesn't do it anymore. So if the shooter didn't change, and the gun was changed, the closest logical conclusion is that it's the gun that caused the nudge. That's what should be logical, but I won't rule out the shooter with a reasonable explanation of why.
 

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Chessie724 said:
I noticed this also when I was dryfiring...the front sight would nudge to three o'clock at the break. After a standard trigger job by our esteemed Mr. Burwell, it doesn't do it anymore. So if the shooter didn't change, and the gun was changed, the closest logical conclusion is that it's the gun that caused the nudge. That's what should be logical, but I won't rule out the shooter with a reasonable explanation of why.


Maybe the over travel caused the "pull" :? Now that the overtravel has gone... :wink:
Thanks Mr. Burwell :wink:
 

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ToddG said:
[quote name='243ww']

Maybe the over travel caused the "pull" :? Now that the overtravel has gone... :wink:
Thanks Mr. Burwell :wink:


Exactly.[/quote]



There is also a torque applied to the pistol by your finger when you're pulling it. So ToddG had an extremely wise bit of info placed in one of his posts... consistent pressure through out the trigger pull will keep from having a spike of torque on the trigger, pulling the gun off to one side. Just a thought...
 

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I've noticed a very slight movement toward 3 o'clock, then back to target. It is like a vibration. Is this the movement being described? As soon as the striker "hits" I see this. I'm not sure it makes any difference on shot placement, but I do not see this with any other handgun I own. The M&P is the only striker-fired handgun I own.



It drives me nuts trying to fire without the sight moving. About 1-2% of the time, I will see no vibration. When I do my best to repeat whatever I did before, the next dryfire invariably twitches. I've tried different finger pad positions, minor grip changes and have concentrated on the trigger. The movement is always slightly to the right and then back on target.
 

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ToddG said:
steve -- It's you, not the gun parts. Sorry man. :wink:



It will come with practice. You can certainly work on finger placement, but mostly it's just a matter of repetitions. Go slower. Constant pressure straight back is what you want. Be aware of your whole hand, not just your trigger finger. Changing your grip as you pull, or moving your wrist, squeezing or heeling all can make the sight move at the moment of the trigger break.



Are you using an aiming point when you dry fire? For perfecting trigger manipulation I'd recommend against it. I use the Wall Drill with students all the time and it definitely makes a difference.


+1 on the Wall Drill. Here's another one from SigArms instructor George Harris.

http://www.downrange.tv/player.htm?bcpid=4...bctid=909886852
 

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George is a highly respected instructor and knows more about marksmanship fundamentals than just about anyone I've ever met. He has an uncanny ability to take a new, completely inexperienced shooter and have him hitting 8" plates at twenty-five yards on demand in no time.
 

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stevenknapp said:
I've been using a spot on my wall to practice against, just so I can notice the sight movement.



I'll try the larger grips, they feel better to me, but harder to get a solid grip I thought.



Also with the trigger finger, I've tried the tip, the pad, and the first joint, all three give the problem. The 2nd-pad or 2nd-joint no issues. It's almost as if my finger needs to be bent out/right (right handed) to get the pad on the trigger too far to really pull straight back.



Is there any issue using the 2nd joint? Most seem to recommend against it.



The movement is VERY slight, and only when the trigger has been cocked. Without that resistance, the gun stays very stable.



I'll keep practicing. Thanks!


Hand/finger size will make a difference in allowing you to pull the trigger straight back. Some people, myself included, have large hands and long fingers and I find that I need to use the first joint instead of the pad when shooting my M+P, Glock and my 1911s. On smaller guns like my J frame, I use the 2nd pad of my finger, inside the first joint.

On a gun like the M+P with different grips, use the larger grip to give your trigger finger a chance to stretch out.

Also, how the gun sits in your hand can determine where your trigger finger contacts the trigger.

You may want to rotate the butt of the grip a bit deeper into your palm to cause your finger to wrap around a bit more. See pics below









Poor hand to gun fit is big cause of people disturbing the gun when working the trigger. On custom target guns this can be fixed by changing grips and triggers. On duty guns sometimes you just have to use a different part of your trigger finger to get that straight back press.



Gringop
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I've been practicing and there is a combo of grip, trigger pressure, and whatnot that keeps the gun ALMOST perfectly still. I did notice that when the trigger is pulled, my slide moves slightly (.5-1mm) forward. I think I see a wee bit of this in the sight, but it's VERY slight. Assume this is normal for the M&P.



My goal is now to practice to get this to be the norm, rather than 25% of the time.



Another thing I tried was to push down the sear-disconnect and do some practice. Without any resistance on the trigger I've practiced pulling the trigger both very slowly and quickly. Without the resistance nor the "snap" noise I could see how my hand, and therefor the gun, moves a wee bit.



Thanks again!
 
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