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Discussion Starter #1
I just realized that I use the recalled holster from Blackhawk everyday for carry. I followed the directions in the recall notice on their website. I expressed my need to expedite the replacement being that the holster is my primary carry holster in the winter. I was a little disappointed that I did not get a reply today.



Those who have responded to the recall, how long until you got a response? replacement holster? etc.?
 

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Don't really know how long was at my local gun dealer today and he said that he had no idea how long they was going to be working on them to get them right.
 

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Check the other recall thread. I think someone posted that it was over a month.
 

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They advised me by phone; approx 45 days.

They have to manufacture a new design with no "high wall".
 

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as if the regular Serpa's weren't unsafe enough...they had to put a tab on the holster that would fit inside the trigger guard, that a gun could encounter during the holstering process.



why do people buy these holsters again?



it's unsafe junk, this crap should be taken off the market.
 

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I don't see the problem with the current design. Tte single incident that prompted the recall was someone was careless reholstering and got the "high wall" portion of the holster crammed inside the trigger guard and then proceeded to push on it til it engaged the trigger and discharged the weapon.



Try this as I and several others I know have. Unload your pistol and deliberately try to make any portion of the holster engage the trigger and you will find it impossible to do unless the muzzle of the gun completely misses the holster and you manipulate it in an awkward position and push the gun hard enough to press the trigger. You are just as likely to have your clothing or something else engage the trigger during a reholster. The SINGLE PERSON that did this was obviously careless reholstering and caused this NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE!
 

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synergy said:
as if the regular Serpa's weren't unsafe enough...they had to put a tab on the holster that would fit inside the trigger guard, that a gun could encounter during the holstering process.



why do people buy these holsters again?



it's unsafe junk, this crap should be taken off the market.


It wasn't the "trigger lock" or anything in the holster. The incident in question involved an improperly and carelesly reholstered weapon where the trigger engaged an external part of the holster which could happen to anyone with any holster and weapon if used carelessly. Serpa/kydex holsters are by far the most popular and used holters now days for IDPA and many other daily carry applications. These ND's are no more common now than before their invention. Fact is they are much faster into action and are just as safe as any other type of carry holster.By the way, there is no such thing as an IDIOT PROOF holster.
 

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I was able to hit the trigger but only after turning the pistol 90degrees ("gangsta " position) and then I could just barely get a corner of the "high wall" into the trigger guard.
 

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ebar5 said:
Serpa/kydex holsters are by far the most popular and used holters now days for IDPA and many other daily carry applications. These ND's are no more common now than before their invention.



Fact is they are much faster into action and are just as safe as any other type of carry holster.By the way, there is no such thing as an IDIOT PROOF holster.


1) I don't give a crap what's popular for gun-gamers. I've carried one before, they're junk. Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it's good. My jeans aren't pre-worn, my hat brim points forwards, and my holster doesn't require me to push my trigger finger towards the trigger. IDPA isn't gunfighting, nor is it daily carry.



2) Explain how they're "faster". I'm really waiting to see how a holster with a lock is faster than one without it.



3)They're not just as safe. You've got plenty of documented cases where the holster wouldn't release the gun as debris jammed the lock, where the holster body ripped off/ through the paddle and stayed on the gun, and where people shot themselves mid draw-stroke using the serpa release mechanism.



And this holster is a good one because "IDPA shooters use it" and it's "popular"? Sorry if I don't select my gunfighting equipment based on what everyone else thinks is cool.
 

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synergy said:
[quote name='ebar5']Serpa/kydex holsters are by far the most popular and used holters now days for IDPA and many other daily carry applications. These ND's are no more common now than before their invention.



Fact is they are much faster into action and are just as safe as any other type of carry holster.By the way, there is no such thing as an IDIOT PROOF holster.


1) I don't give a crap what's popular for gun-gamers. I've carried one before, they're junk. Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it's good. My jeans aren't pre-worn, my hat brim points forwards, and my holster doesn't require me to push my trigger finger towards the trigger. IDPA isn't gunfighting, nor is it daily carry.



2) Explain how they're "faster". I'm really waiting to see how a holster with a lock is faster than one without it.



3)They're not just as safe. You've got plenty of documented cases where the holster wouldn't release the gun as debris jammed the lock, where the holster body ripped off/ through the paddle and stayed on the gun, and where people shot themselves mid draw-stroke using the serpa release mechanism.



And this holster is a good one because "IDPA shooters use it" and it's "popular"? Sorry if I don't select my gunfighting equipment based on what everyone else thinks is cool.[/quote]

I think we're talking about three different kinds of holsters now. The Serpa is the one with the locking mechanism and is not made from kydex. The Fobus is the one in the notorious web video where the holster body gets ripped from the paddle and is not kydex either.



Regarding speed, kydex is considered faster due to less drag on the pistol on the draw. The Serpa is considered fast as well because so much of the retention is in the locking mechanism rather than a tight form fit - again less drag. Although some find it awkward at first, the locking mechanism on the Serpa does not make the draw slower as it is released as soon as a grip is acquired on the pistol.



For the record, I don't like the Serpa either but I wouldn't go as far as to say it is junk. I would reserve that distinction for the Fobus.



I have not seen "plenty of documented cases where the holster wouldn't release the gun as debris jammed the lock". I have seen one story circulated all over the internet. I have not formed an opinion about whether the story is credible or not, but if Blackhawk was willing to recall these holsters after one ND that is almost impossible to duplicate, wouldn't they be as willing to recall their Serpa holsters and re-design the locking mechanism if it was prone to lock up with debris?
 

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synergy said:
3)They're not just as safe. You've got plenty of documented cases where the holster wouldn't release the gun as debris jammed the lock, where the holster body ripped off/ through the paddle and stayed on the gun, and where people shot themselves mid draw-stroke using the serpa release mechanism.


I have yet to see actual documented cases of any of the afore mentioned failures. I have HEARD of the debris fouled Serpa that required a couple of people to dislodge the weapon, but have yet to see any documentation on the case. I have also yet to see any documented cases of people having ND's due to the use to the lock. If you have documented cases, aside from internet rumor, please pass it along as I'd like to see it.



I am far from a Serpa fan, especially for concealed carry as, for me, it conceals about as well as a gallon of milk, but if youre going to bash something, atleast back up your claims.
 

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i had to check to make sure i wasn't on glocktalk.com with all this product

bashing going on.
 

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I've not heard of these failures from a reliable sourse either. I do see them used by "experts" in training films and on tv shows like Personal Defense TV. In fact I just saw an episode where Tom Gresham was wearing a Serpa for his M&P 9mm or 40 and Clint Smith was wearing what looked to be a Bladetech or similar. These folks make a living doing what they do and I would respect their opinion as much as most anyone.



Im a pretty big guy and I drive A LOT. 140,000 to 150,000 miles a year just for work. Being seated for 10 to 12 hrs a day, I find the Serpa on the shoulder rig w/1 extra mag and my surefire D4 Lumamax comfortable, fast, safe and very concealable under a large unbuttoned shirt. Concealability depends on how you want to dress. Yes I like a good leather rig too but each type has its time and place. How many stories of thumb breaks being cought in triggers have you heard of? I've heard lots but I chalk it up to carelessness, I don't call the holster junk. That's the same thing the anti's do when they blame the gun instead of the criminal.
 

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tony218 said:
i had to check to make sure i wasn't on glocktalk.com with all this product

bashing going on.
Consider it a consumer review that can help you save money and avoid the dreaded "box of holsters". :wink:
 

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choochboost said:
[quote name='synergy'][quote name='ebar5']Serpa/kydex holsters are by far the most popular and used holters now days for IDPA and many other daily carry applications. These ND's are no more common now than before their invention.



Fact is they are much faster into action and are just as safe as any other type of carry holster.By the way, there is no such thing as an IDIOT PROOF holster.


1) I don't give a crap what's popular for gun-gamers. I've carried one before, they're junk. Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it's good. My jeans aren't pre-worn, my hat brim points forwards, and my holster doesn't require me to push my trigger finger towards the trigger. IDPA isn't gunfighting, nor is it daily carry.



2) Explain how they're "faster". I'm really waiting to see how a holster with a lock is faster than one without it.



3)They're not just as safe. You've got plenty of documented cases where the holster wouldn't release the gun as debris jammed the lock, where the holster body ripped off/ through the paddle and stayed on the gun, and where people shot themselves mid draw-stroke using the serpa release mechanism.



And this holster is a good one because "IDPA shooters use it" and it's "popular"? Sorry if I don't select my gunfighting equipment based on what everyone else thinks is cool.[/quote]

I think we're talking about three different kinds of holsters now. The Serpa is the one with the locking mechanism and is not made from kydex. The Fobus is the one in the notorious web video where the holster body gets ripped from the paddle and is not kydex either.



Regarding speed, kydex is considered faster due to less drag on the pistol on the draw. The Serpa is considered fast as well because so much of the retention is in the locking mechanism rather than a tight form fit - again less drag. Although some find it awkward at first, the locking mechanism on the Serpa does not make the draw slower as it is released as soon as a grip is acquired on the pistol.



For the record, I don't like the Serpa either but I wouldn't go as far as to say it is junk. I would reserve that distinction for the Fobus.



I have not seen "plenty of documented cases where the holster wouldn't release the gun as debris jammed the lock". I have seen one story circulated all over the internet. I have not formed an opinion about whether the story is credible or not, but if Blackhawk was willing to recall these holsters after one ND that is almost impossible to duplicate, wouldn't they be as willing to recall their Serpa holsters and re-design the locking mechanism if it was prone to lock up with debris?[/quote]



Chooch, I'm not talking about the Fobus...I was talking about the Serpa. I carried a 1911 in one for a few months...open carry, daily, where I work. The holster hung the gun so far off of my body that everyone kept bumping into my gun behind the counter...I spent a lot of time on the range with that holster.



I, as well as others ( http://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=56...mp;postcount=25 ) have seen this holster bind up.



It's not hard to see how easy it'd be for your trigger finger to carry on into your trigger guard. In a stress reaction...it is all too possible. I've watched shooters on my range draw with this holster, and some have had their fingers go into the trigger guard with not additional effort...this has not resulted in an ND that I've witnessed, yet.



I hardly think the reports your hearing about this holster having serious issues (screws ripping through the paddle/ belt piece, gun not being able to be drawn from the holster, ND's) are all just rumors started by rival holster manufactures....



I feel that this holster is junk, and I don't think it's too hard to see why.
 

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Drawing from a Serpa puts your finger where it should be. Just above the trigger guard along the frame and if it takes more than the slightest preasure to release it, there is something wrong with the holster. What do you do wih your trigger finger when drawing? If trained propperly, it goes right where the button on the Serpa places it. Guns are DEADLY WEAPONS and there is danger involved when handling them, that's why we cannot be careless and we need to TRAIN TRAIN AND TRAIN some more.



Also, since you have aSerpa that is junk, tighten the screws propperly and see if you can rip it apart. When your not able to, tell us how hard you tried.
 

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ebar5 said:
Drawing from a Serpa puts your finger where it should be. Just above the trigger guard along the frame and if it takes more than the slightest preasure to release it, there is something wrong with the holster. What do you do wih your trigger finger when drawing? If trained propperly, it goes right where the button on the Serpa places it. Guns are DEADLY WEAPONS and there is danger involved when handling them, that's why we cannot be careless and we need to TRAIN TRAIN AND TRAIN some more.



Also, since you have aSerpa that is junk, tighten the screws propperly and see if you can rip it apart. When your not able to, tell us how hard you tried.


ebar5, you don't know me, or my level of training...nor do I know yours. However...to say that there's a "proper" place to put your finger, is a little misleading. Depending on your hands, and your gun...its not the same across the board. Numerous schools teach different techniques. I don't feel that there is one "correct" technique.



guns are dangerous, so our safety habits while handling them must be paramount...this included using equipment that gives us a margin of safety.



"Train train train" i don't disagree with you, but using a device that requires a significant amount of training to use safely isn't a good idea for most people.



I sold my holster with the gun...I have no intention of wasting any more of my money on one of these.
 

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I guess we must agree to disagree. I think the Serpa is a great tool but on the same hand, not the only tool. It is my primary carry rig attatched to my shoulder, it is my IDPA rig with the belt attatchment and it is my duty rig on my drop leg attachment. I think the lock makes it safer than most but that's my opinion. Its also my opinion that it is more natural and takes less training than operating a thumb break.

I agree that there is always more than one way to skin a cat and I respect that. That's why they created Baskin Robbins. Me, I like plain ol' vanilla.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Wow! I didn't know this thread would be so popular, or controversial.




Great reading BTW.



Anyway, has anyone recieved a replacement holster?
 
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