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Discussion Starter #1
I just watched an "investigative report" on the local news about Blackwater setting up a training facility near San Diego. Blackwater is best known for their involvement in Iraq, but they are apparently now pursuing domestic operations as well.



The report was dominated by those who didn't like the idea of this private army setting up camp in their state. It was proposed that they could be deployed in the event of major civil unrest and the Blackwater representative was open about their desire to work along the southern border. The feature also talked about Blackwater's involvement along the gulf coast post Katrina. There were questions about who they are accountable to.



The plan in San Diego would be to make their training facility available to military and LE, but the naysayers expressed concerns that such a relationship would only make it easier for this private company to become involved in local law enforcement.



So, what do you think about Blackwater's desire to become involved in domestic affairs? Do you think its a good thing where they are just picking up the slack when the government drops the ball, or do you think that it is scary that a private company could become involved in local law enforcement such as at the Gulf Coast?



Story here: http://www.knbc.com/news/13858496/detail.html
 

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I dont see why anyone with there reputation would be disputed... Just because they work with the CIA, or do the job some agencies wont do, makes them bad? These guys are highly trained, most all are former military, so what's the big deal. If I wanted to choose an area were I could rapidly deploy, train in urban and desert environments and most of all party... It would be San Diego, so I dont see why its a big deal? As far them being involved in domestic affairs, I say why not... This organization is highly trained, better than any SWAT out there, so again I dont see what the big deal is... I would feel more protected and safe knowing they were around, well if I had a daughter I would scared shitless...
 

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I agree with Morgan Walker about San Diego being the ideal place to set up a training area. Just a short trip to desert, mountains, urban, and amphibous operations areas. However, I am concerned for these guys especially if they patrol the border (personally, I would like nothing more). Last year our stellar government decided to prosecute 2 border patrol agents for shooting a mexican drug smuggler. These guys were LEO's and they took them to the cleaners and threw them in jail. What would happen to a corperation of private individuals? Not to mention the stink the mexican government would make. And when an incident happens (and it will happen) Blackwater will probably be sued by some other country (mexico) for violating its citizens rights. They will be sued in some kangaroo court over in leftist America hating Europe. Blackwater will lose that battle and we will lose a highly trained private fighting force who would otherwise have the potential to remain a great asset to this nation.
 

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Blackwater had a government contract to provide security in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. There were several other 'Private Contractors' yet Blackwater was the only one contracted by the gov.
 

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I would not call blackwater a totally respectable company. If you recall several of there employees burned, beaten and dragged through the streets of Bagdad and when the families asked for information they were not told anything.



If we need a reactive force then call up the guard. That is what they are there for. I don't think we need highly trained operators for anything like Katrina or any riots that might happen. Just my 2 cents.
 

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TranquilDeath said:
I would not call blackwater a totally respectable company. If you recall several of there employees burned, beaten and dragged through the streets of Bagdad and when the families asked for information they were not told anything.



If we need a reactive force then call up the guard. That is what they are there for. I don't think we need highly trained operators for anything like Katrina or any riots that might happen. Just my 2 cents.


I disagree 100%, an organization like Blackwater is trained to do just whatever the need is. The National Guard, come on give me a break, these units are not designed to support this type of operation, as we have found in OIF/OEF. Let the professionals do the dirty work, their reputation is solid. Think of them as illegal aliens, they do the job we dont want to do... Plus they, the dont have ROE, "Rules of Engagement" so they totally can do the job without restriction, we need more of these people "Policing" our borders."
 

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Morgan, It probably won't matter anyway. There was an Anti-Pinkerton law established way back when to prevent such groups from doing just that.
 

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HEre's an interesting article about Blackwater and it's Political ties:

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0922-22.htm



I feel companies like Blackwater serve a great purpose. Can they get out of hand, sure. Anyone/any group can in the fog of war or a hostile enviornment. I agree with Morgan Walker--They do the things we don't-or can't do. We need them and they are here to stay. I agree and turn them loose on the borders.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I think the concern was their apparent lack of accountability and making a private outfit responsible for law and order.



We all agree that something needs to be done about the border so at this point its almost like we'll welcome any help we can get. But let's forget about the border for a minute, where their primary contacts will be illegal aliens...what about Blackwater policing American citizens? Does that change anything?
 

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choochboost said:
I think the concern was their apparent lack of accountability and making a private outfit responsible for law and order.



We all agree that something needs to be done about the border so at this point its almost like we'll welcome any help we can get. But let's forget about the border for a minute, where their primary contacts will be illegal aliens...what about Blackwater policing American citizens? Does that change anything?


I think if you want to hire a private company to patrol your borders and enforce your borders that's one thing. I've done a lot of research on Blackwater over the last few years and I do not agree with them being used as we are currently using them in Iraq. The lack of accountability to have individuals within that organization held accountable directly to the government will eventually catch up. However, as I started to say if you wanted to use a company to enforce your borders thats fine. I draw the line however, the first time a private company is asking me for my ID like your state and local LEO should be doing.
 

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so our gov't can spend money on mercenaries to police our streets but can't hire more LE?



am i missing something?



Where can i get a job app????
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Lr01 said:
so our gov't can spend money on mercenaries to police our streets but can't hire more LE?



am i missing something?
I think they are counting on you missing something. That actually seems to be part of the scheme in Iraq (and elsewhere). They, not our military, are being used to protect US diplomats and other US interests. They cost more and they are not subject to military oversight and when they are killed they are not counted as US military casualties. They now want to extend their reach within our borders and they have the support of some in our government.



But since when was the government concerned about wasteful spending? :?
 

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Anarchy, NWO, Police Nation... How about this; BS. Blackwater is made up of American, for Americans... Like it or not, we need folks like them to keep our pretty little heads safe at night when we and our family sleep comfortably in our homes. Let them do as they please, trust me, less trash out there fro me to clean-up...
 

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Man, I am no history buff or anything, but wasnt it the now defunct Roman Empire that had to resort to hiring mercenaries to protect its borders due to the Legions being spread too thin??? Wasnt that shortly before they imploded? Things that make you go HMMMMM?



If our government can afford to pay private contractors/mercenaries to do a job they can damn well hire more BP agents or LEO.



As for Blackwater, they are a private company and should be allowed to do private business with whomever they choose. If they want to get involved with protecting local PRIVATE businesses or individuals no problem so long as they stay on provate property. If some private industry or entity feels the need for high speed low drag mall ninja's; more power to them. However, they should in NO way shape or form be allowed to take part in ANY law enforcement activities off of private property, be that agains illegals or Americans or purple people eaters for that matter.



If we need some high speed low drag QRF, get our military out of any BS peace keeping missions to free up resources, let the guard come home; train and equip them appropriately.



Having Blackwater guys patrol my streets is only an RCH better than having UN guys patrol my streets.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So Morgan, you wouldn't mind taking orders from a private force that is neither federal nor local LE? I'm surprised. I not trying to pick a fight with you...I just know you appreciate your freedom. LEOs telling you to do something is one thing, your tactical civilian neighbor ordering you around is another.
 

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I live in Pensacola on the gulf coast and went through the NE eye wall of hurricanne Ivan. AT daylight it look liked the aftermath of a nucler attack . By that afternoon National Gardsmen were in the streets with there weapons directing traffic and patroling the streets. I could see using Blackwater on the border working under comand of local or federal units. But in no way should any "private army" be policing american people. MY 2 cents.
 

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Morgan Walker said:
I disagree 100%, an organization like Blackwater is trained to do just whatever the need is. The National Guard, come on give me a break, these units are not designed to support this type of operation, as we have found in OIF/OEF. Let the professionals do the dirty work, their reputation is solid. Think of them as illegal aliens, they do the job we dont want to do... Plus they, the dont have ROE, "Rules of Engagement" so they totally can do the job without restriction, we need more of these people "Policing" our borders."


The rules of engagement don't apply, and you want them policing our border?



Howabout policing within the border, because that's where they'll be unless they are invading another country.



They get a lot of laws bent for them, that frankly shouldn't be. Either the law applies, or it doesn't. If it doesn't then don't hold me accountable either. Add to that that they can basically do an end run around the posse comitatus act, and I don't want them operating within our borders period.



I think, historically, law enforcement has gone over the line quite well enough. Turning the mentality that caused that up to 11, and letting them loose with less laws than apply to you, me, the military, or police doesn't sound like a good plan.
 

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Nothing good can come from private armies. Soldiers are trained to fight an enemy- when you give them police duties, the people will inevitably become the enemy.



The founders of this great nation were very aware of the problem. Take as an example, this from the AZ state constitution:



Section 26. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.


Section 20. The military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.


I have no problem with them being hired by private businesses- but not to carry out law enforcement against citizens.



What gives them any more right to walk around with automatic weapons in riot gear than the average person? Have they sworn to uphold and defend the constitution? What is the recourse if they violate my rights?



Leave the fighting to the soldiers and the policing to the police. If they want to operate in the private sector I have no problem with that however, they should follow the same laws we all do with no special treatment.
 

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If they want to train in San Diego, whatever. As far as a private company in charge of law enforcement I really don't see a problem with it. I think they would as accountable if not more. A private company providing law enforcement would undoubtedly be under a contract. That contract would likely have provisions that say the contract is done if the private company makes too many mistakes. If not in the contract the political pressure would likely end the contract.



So the organization would be heavily self-regulating and do a good job policing itself because it would lose its lifeblood (the contract) if it made too many mistakes. Under the current system the people who messed up lose their jobs and are possibly prosecuted but the organization is not punished for not regulating their agents. Purely hypothetical and I know this doesn't happen very often but if something bad goes down at the lowest level those at the top don't really suffer many consequences. They don't often lose their livelihood. I'm not really worried about a company providing local and state law enforcement and it doesn't bother me that we hire private companies to work in Iraq. It's not their from a foreign county that is hostile toward us. They're Americans too, this is their job. Just because it doesn't have the officalness of the military doesn't really bother me.
 
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