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Discussion Starter #1
I just tried a hot load of Blue Dot powder.



BLECH.



Velocity on a par with Bullseye, but it's way too DIRTY. Lots of unburnt powder.

Enough that I would fear a function problem just from powder build up.



I also tried it for my .38, same hot load idea. Double BLECH.

Low velocity, LOTS of unburnt powder. Da Book done LIED about

Blue Dot powder in these loadings. No where near the listed velocity.



I'll save the rest of that pound of powder. Maybe my .44 will like it.
 

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thats the same way that unique is, tightgroup is much better.
 

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You might try a magnum primer, that might help ignite the powder.
 

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magnum or small rifle primer but DO NOT interchange load data Work the load up from start maybe a little lower.



the Unique I have shot burns pretty good then again I use it for max loads often compressing it.



Universal burns nicer and is much cleaner than Unique but Universal cannot give the velocity Unique can safely. Universal likes to leave a cloud of smoke with exposed lead.



what caliber you using Blue Dot with? Blue Dot is known for not burning completely.
 

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Anytime you change a component the load needs to be worked up from starting loads.



I had loaded some 40 S&W with Blue Dot and was getting a lot of unburned powder, I've since switched over to Unique and no problems with it, I also got more consistent velocity with Unique due to more complete powder burn.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
In this case, I tried the blue dot in 9mm and .38.



The magnum primer idea had occured to me, and I'll probably try it.

But...... of course I'll have to reduce the load accordingly and work back up.

I'm not sure the effort is worth it. The powder burns dirty, REAL dirty, and that

is not what I am looking for.



Unburned powder does not bother me per se, it's what it can do to a pistol's

function that bothers me. I am looking for a self defense load. To that end I also

want a load that I can practice with a lot as well. In either case, a dirty load

that might lead to a function issue is not acceptable.



Bullseye burns very clean for me and gives outstanding accuracy. I'd just like

another 100 fps from the load.



My goal is 1200 fps with a 124 grain Speer Golt Dot bullet. Perhaps I have set that sight

too high. I think I'll E-mail Speer and ask the speed that bullet is most effective at.

1200 might be a waste of my time, and the 1100 fps bullseye load might be all I need.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ok, a quick web search turned up some interesting results.



The Speer Gold Dot factory 9mm with this 124 grain bullet has been Chronograph tested

and the results are out there. Standard loading at 1068 fps average, and +p loading

at 1155 fps average.



I think I'll re-define a 'win' to 1150 FPS to match the Speer +p factory load.



Bullseye won't quite get me there but it's close.



My goal, somewhat redefined: A 124 grain Speer Gold Dot bullet out of

my M+P 9mm compact at 1150 FPS, burning clean with minimal muzzle flash,

with accuracy of 1.5" or less at 50 feet.



Almost there........



This is all for my carry pistol. Put another 100 through it today.

Mostly practicing draw from a new holster, with singles and doubles.

The M+P is almost as easy to shoot well as my Commander.
 

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Sounds like you have a nice load working for your compact.



What low recoil, target load do you use for 9mm and .38Sp.???
 

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It would be interesting to know exactly what kind of powder Speer is using in those 9mm +P loads.
 

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list of powders for 9mm



AA#5, if you want to move 147gr AA#7

PowerPistol though it has muzzle flash. gives excellent velocity with little pressure.

Unique is good and will go +p nicely it fills the case up well and gives fair velocity.

Vv N330,N340,N350,3n37. I prefer N340 fills the case burns complete and very little flash if any. also expensive but can make cheaper defense loads than commercial with premium componets and be better and more inexpensive that commercial ammo. seriously box of 20-25 carts for $13-$20 wth are these companies smoking.



HS6 is popular should do 1150fps with 125gr without +p Hodgdon 2004 manual

WSF is good similar to Unique in velocity and pressure. my best accuracy loads are with wsf. may need to go +p for the velocity.

Longshot can do what you want without +p pressure Hodgdon 2004 manual

1150fps? in 9mm plenty of people push it to 1300fps+ with 124/125gr 9mm Major. upper limit +p some even exceed it.



titegroup will get close to 1150fps if you go +p it can do it. small charge weights easy to do bad things.



could use a book load with short OAL I would recommend 1.125-1.150" though not bullets all may go out that far nicely. may run into rifling if the shoulder runs tall could hit the lands.



http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/9mmluger.php

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/longshot/index.htm



if your planning on going +p or its a possibility(spike) may want to avoid federal small pistol primers. cci is best though guns tend to have troubles setting them off at times usually do to trigger job or just weak striker or design. remington and winchester are generally good. primers will flatten and flow if the pressure gets high enough can burst.



wish I could find someone that could tell me how to get 1100-1150fps or higher in 9mm with 147gr FMJ/JHP. so much to workup so little time.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
MrApathy,

Thanks for the time you put into your posts. They are informative

and I appreciate the effort!



I just tore down 50 rounds of .38 loaded with Blue Dot...... No point wasting the XTP bullets with that load.



I'll have to go on a powder expedition I guess. Not enough time, not enough money, sigh.......



Going to sooth myself by putting 100 rounds downrange from

a few of my old Mausers.
 

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Bluedot is my favorite powder, but it doesn't meter well. I primarily use it for .357 Magnum. I decided to use Bullseye in 9mm loadings. Typically I wouldn't load 9mm, but customer service and Wally world do not equal, so decided to do 9mm.
 

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YukonGlocker said:
Mike at Doubletap pushes the 147gr. Gold Dot to 1135fps out of a Glock 17, while keeping pressures to +P. I wonder what powder he uses???
I would be extremely leery of pushing that heavy a bullet at that velocity, that's more likely approaching a 9mm +P++, that's really pushing it! That weight bullet is normally kept under 1,000 fps.



More than likely the powder that Speer uses in their loads isn't available to the general public, the majority of the powders used by reloaders are different from what the major ammo companies use.
 

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Doubletap ammo has been tested in test barrels and it does not exceed the pressure given in the ad. (+P for 9mm)
 

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McNett says the pressure hardly goes into +p range. no idea what powder it is not sold to non commercial loaders.



for pushing heavy bullets you need slow burning powders. from PowerPistol down to AA#9 Blue dot is in there. to take good advantage of slow burning powders longer barrel can be helpfull. slow burning powders and light bullets may not burn as well.



with 8.0gr book max load longshot I can send 180gr bullet in 40sw 1150fps without exceeding saami maximum 35,000psi. I dont push 40sw the brass is no where near as thick and durable as 9mm brass.



for 147gr bullet in 9mm. the trick is to load it long 1.150-1.169"

check out Lymans 48th load manual check 9x21 page basicly reference for 9mm +p. can toy around with math on load characteristics got computer programs that do that too. I dont use any programs due to the fact I use linux and they are all for windows.



divide pressure by charge weight then multiply result with desired charge weight. do the same with velocity can give a rough guess but some powders may have a sharp pressure spike before the results of the crude math would hint. Lee Modern reloading has a few pages of nice data in chapter 9 pages 124-125 though doesnt have the data on a wide variety of powders. 1% charge reduction info. problem with doing so is all powders and charges increase or decrease is not uniform. powerpistol is most uniform I have played with.



if you look around the net you can findout what companies use to reduce flash. what I have found out it is, it needs to be added during manufacture to truely be affective.



can search google for

"potassium sulfate flash reduction"

been a few pages of information sadly some disapeared nothing with much data like pressure,velocity,amount of materials.



http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=g...ifier=ADA130876

also the additives can affect pressure,velocity and smoke.



dont recommend pushing gold dots unless they are bonded. regulars will do some nasty stuff. out of my testing Remington GoldenSabers perform the best though will see jacket seperation it seperates cleanly and the core expands. the GoldDot has a tendancy to shred.



its my opinion that 124 and 147gr JHP's are best in 9mm but velocity can be important(too much and too little) as is distance to target. 115gr and lighter Hollowpoint cavities are usually small and clog easy. sending a JHP faster doesnt always mean you will get better penetration results. sometimes the bullet can fail to expand but may deform,expand greatly or shred. too much expansion and the bullet can lack penetration. bullets can do some pretty weird and unexpected things.
 

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There is no shortage of companies that make claims that aren't backed up in the real world, you see a lot of fake lab results and on and on, ad nauseum, there are wonder bullets, wonder ammo, oil that never wears out, special devices that can give you up to 100 mpg, they all make claims, and some of these are backed up by what they represent as certified lab results.



There is no free lunch.
 
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