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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone. Kinda new here, posted in the compact forum, bought a 9C yesterday. I picked up an application to conceal carry here in WA state today, will go in for fingerprinting and the like on Saturday. Having been a long time rifle and shotgun user, I'm somewhat concerned with the M&P not having an external safety. I would like to carry in an IWB holster for the easiest concealment possible. Maybe I'm paranoid, but when the time comes for me to legally carry, I'm planning on having a loaded mag but nothing in the chamber while I'm carrying. If the time came to draw, a quick pull of the slide shouldn't take more than a second or two, I'd hope that I don't get myself into a situation where I wouldn't have time to pull up a round. I understand the firing pin block safety and how it works, I guess I'm just super paranoid. If I understand correctly, the M&P requires a full trigger pull to de-activate the firing pin block, correct? Maybe I'm making a big deal out of this, but for someone who hasn't carried before, I'm a little apprenhensive. I suppose with a good IWB holster there's no possibility of that trigger engaging an AD. Just looking for a little insight for someone who will be new to carrying.
 

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You post a good question that has been discussed numerous times, so you may want to try searching the forum to see what people have argued over time.



I dont see a reason for the empty chamber carry. If you do not believe that the gun is safe to carry as designed, or you are just not comfortable without a safety I would move on to a different platform. When I first started carrying I went through the same dilemma. "Solved" it by carrying around the house with a snap-cap in the tube and doing whatever I could dream up to cause an AD. Did this with a Glock, a 1911, a HKUSP... Of all the guns I had it came down to having something in the trigger guard to make it go bang. Nothing else caused the hammer to fall. Get a QUALITY holster, practice your draw and holstering stroke, and by all means abide by the 4 rules.



WRT to carry without a round chambered... there are a few schools of thought, but I have always though it foolish. We as CCW holders are always going to be behind the curve since we will be reacting to a threat that has already presented itself. Why willingly put yourself behind the curve even further when you dont have to?
 

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hey rail...



you have a concern with safety... nothing wrong with that.




I have the .40c... same exact gun, just a different caliber. no safety, etc.



I carry mine, WITH a round in the chamber, and there are no worries about discharging the gun, as long as you keep your nosedigger off the trigger!




this gun does work well with IWB, I have many holsters for it, my two favorites being Comp-Tac's "MTAC" and "pro undercover" IWB holsters.



no matter what holster you go with... you're safe. the m&p trigger would need something to go into the triggergaurd and push the trigger completely through it's motion until the striker goes. NOT going to happen.



you wont get a AD from bumping something, or slipping and landing on it... etc. keep your finger off the trigger, and you'll have no problems at all.



i will tell you with 100% confidence, to just carry with one in the chamber... nothing will go wrong. (unless you're an irresponsible idiot of some sort). I would rather have a chambered round ready, than risk a sudden attack and lose that time chambering. What if you dont have time? what if you're shaky and fumble with it? BG's dont make appointments, and the gutless cowards often like to come suddenly from behind... dont give them any more advantage than they already have.



you'll be fine... the paranoia will pass with time.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think I'm just a little paranoid, it's 100% mental for me at this point, something I need to get over. You're right though, the whole point of carrying is to be ready at a moment's notice. I think I might go the same "house training" route TAZ did to help me out or just keep telling myself that's the way it is.



As I said, I've had lots of experience with rifles and shotguns, years and years of hunting, so I know how to keep my finger off the trigger when the safety is off and you're tramping through brush headed after a pheasant. I guess I have this mental incapacity of realizing, at least right now, that nothing is going to pull that trigger while it's in the holster. I think I'll break myself of this, but it'll take a little time I think. Someone else had suggest the Comp-Tac Minotaur to me as well, looks to be a good holster.
 

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Well ... just remember that the gun doesn't fire itself. You have to pull the trigger. There is a pin block so if you drop your M&P from an airplane the gun will break apart, there is no way for the firing pin to come in contact with the primer.



A gun w/o a chambered round really isn't ready to save your life. The M&P is a truely revolutionary design that you can bet your life on - but it has to be ready. It seems a little dangerous I'm sure because we always hear how "loaded guns can go off at any time", which of course is patently false - guns don't go off by themselves anymore than your car starts itself and drives away by itself.



A safe holster completely covers the trigger. A completely covered trigger guard means you have a holster safe for carry. Practice drawing from a holster with your finger up on the slide, and your finger goes into the trigger guard only when the gun is on target. It should not be clumsy but smooth.



If you haven't already read a million holster threads and have yourself set up, the following places make great holsters for M&P's:



Leather:

http://www.kdholsters.com

http://www.ubgholsters.com

http://www.miltsparks.com



Kydex:

http://www.bearclawholsters.com

http://www.comp-tac.com

http://www.hillsmanholster.com



And many, many more. Shoot safe and good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I appreciate all the help, thanks everyone! I was reading a thread here somewhere about M&P's rusting due to holsters. Any validity to the fact that certain holsters will cause the M&P to rust? The thread I was reading was under the basic consensus that maybe a limited run of M&P's had a poorly applied finish and the rusting was due to manufacturing flaws and not a holster whatsoever. I take excellent care of my other guns, I will be oiling weekly I'm sure for corrosion resistance, but I'm in the Seattle area where it gets fairly humid, not terribly hot. Maybe a leather holster for winter and a kydex for summer? Or should I not even worry about holster material causing corrosion? Thoughts?
 

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As stated an M&P with one in the hole is no problem. Get a good holster like the minotaur or the CTAC which is what I use and your good to go. I also wore mine around the house for a few days but after that I was good to go and now carry every day no problem. When you reholster is when you need to take extra care but just be alert and there is no problem. As far as rust , if your M&P has a good factory finish and you wipe down once a week like you said you do, no worries. Enjoy and be safe
 

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If you think about situations where you HAVE to shoot someone to survive...most of them are going to happen in a blink of an eye, and at extremely close range. The rest you should have the time to see coming and start "getting out of Dodge" before you HAVE to draw.



Having time, and both hands to get a gun into service is a luxury you probably will NOT have.



The gun isn't going off while it's holstered. I'd seek out some credible training on the defensive use of handguns...something where you're being taught how to draw and fire at close quarters. This may give you the confidence you need if your weapons system to use it effectively.



We carry guns because they are one of the most effective tools we have to fight for our lives with. Why would we want to handicap our ability to use them that way?
 

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Follow the 4 rules and you will have no problem. Be fast and smooth on the draw but slow on the reholster. If you remember these things, you will have no issue.



Note: All my carry guns a DAO with no "safeties" and they all are fully loaded with one in the chamber.



Hope this helps and congrats on the new permit coming and the new 9C.
 

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I have an M&P40c and I carry mine in a KD Dakota Defender IWB holster with a round in the chamber. When I first received the M&P I carried it around the house with a snap cap in the chamber and tried to set it off, no such luck. I've now moved past the uncomfortable feeling and have been carrying 10+1 for a long while now. Get a high quality holster that has a "hard" guard around the trigger and you have no worries! I would highly recommend a KD IWB holster it is very comfortable (especially the suede backing). Whatever you do just don't carry without a holster; that is where the majority of ND stories come from.
 

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Railslider said:
Hey everyone. Kinda new here, posted in the compact forum, bought a 9C yesterday. I picked up an application to conceal carry here in WA state today, will go in for fingerprinting and the like on Saturday. Having been a long time rifle and shotgun user, I'm somewhat concerned with the M&P not having an external safety. I would like to carry in an IWB holster for the easiest concealment possible. Maybe I'm paranoid, but when the time comes for me to legally carry, I'm planning on having a loaded mag but nothing in the chamber while I'm carrying. If the time came to draw, a quick pull of the slide shouldn't take more than a second or two, I'd hope that I don't get myself into a situation where I wouldn't have time to pull up a round. I understand the firing pin block safety and how it works, I guess I'm just super paranoid. If I understand correctly, the M&P requires a full trigger pull to de-activate the firing pin block, correct? Maybe I'm making a big deal out of this, but for someone who hasn't carried before, I'm a little apprenhensive. I suppose with a good IWB holster there's no possibility of that trigger engaging an AD. Just looking for a little insight for someone who will be new to carrying.


Great post! Im the same. i have my 9mm full size MP and am also concerned because the lack of external safety. I planned on not having one in the tube either until I feel different about it. Im worried about an AD when holstering it or when its in there
 

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TAZ said:
You post a good question that has been discussed numerous times, so you may want to try searching the forum to see what people have argued over time.



I dont see a reason for the empty chamber carry. If you do not believe that the gun is safe to carry as designed, or you are just not comfortable without a safety I would move on to a different platform. When I first started carrying I went through the same dilemma. "Solved" it by carrying around the house with a snap-cap in the tube and doing whatever I could dream up to cause an AD. Did this with a Glock, a 1911, a HKUSP... Of all the guns I had it came down to having something in the trigger guard to make it go bang. Nothing else caused the hammer to fall. Get a QUALITY holster, practice your draw and holstering stroke, and by all means abide by the 4 rules.



WRT to carry without a round chambered... there are a few schools of thought, but I have always though it foolish. We as CCW holders are always going to be behind the curve since we will be reacting to a threat that has already presented itself. Why willingly put yourself behind the curve even further when you dont have to?


What is a snap cap? Could you elaborate more? Thanks
 

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OldmanSnake said:
Great post! Im the same. i have my 9mm full size MP and am also concerned because the lack of external safety. I planned on not having one in the tube either until I feel different about it. Im worried about an AD when holstering it or when its in there


I'd recommend following the above advice, or getting a different weapon to carry which you are more comfortable having chambered (Para LDA guns - grip safety, thumb safety, and double action only).



Here's the flip side though...typically those afraid of carrying with a round chambered are afraid of it because of a lack of experience with guns...these people would often prefer to have a manual safety to make them feel more comfortable. However considering that these people are not that experienced, they are much more likely to forget to manipulate the safety when drawing and re-holstering.



I think the amount of training it takes to get safety manipulation drilled into your draw stoke, probably takes more time than it does to get over an emotional fear of a chambered round without a manual safety in place.



In short, you could probably get used to carrying chambered faster than you could master the use of a thumb safety.
 

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OldmanSnake said:
What is a snap cap? Could you elaborate more? Thanks


A dummy round that people think prevents damage to their guns from dry firing...ie: not necessary in any modern centerfire pistol, unless the manufacturer specifically recommends them (KelTec's, some high end 1911's, etc)
 

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These are the ones I have in 40 cal. Real high quality. Mine are fully red like the ones shown in the package. They leave marks when struck on the brass in the back so you can tell when they have been struck. I used unfired caps to make sure the gun didn't fire when holstered for a week or so, and would eject the round and look at the strike spot to see if it got hit. After that i used them for a little dry firing to work on the trigger.



http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/PROD/a-3-0010/SSN
 

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synergy said:
[quote name='OldmanSnake']

Great post! Im the same. i have my 9mm full size MP and am also concerned because the lack of external safety. I planned on not having one in the tube either until I feel different about it. Im worried about an AD when holstering it or when its in there


I'd recommend following the above advice, or getting a different weapon to carry which you are more comfortable having chambered (Para LDA guns - grip safety, thumb safety, and double action only).



Here's the flip side though...typically those afraid of carrying with a round chambered are afraid of it because of a lack of experience with guns...these people would often prefer to have a manual safety to make them feel more comfortable. However considering that these people are not that experienced, they are much more likely to forget to manipulate the safety when drawing and re-holstering.



I think the amount of training it takes to get safety manipulation drilled into your draw stoke, probably takes more time than it does to get over an emotional fear of a chambered round without a manual safety in place.



In short, you could probably get used to carrying chambered faster than you could master the use of a thumb safety.[/quote]



As rail mentioned its mental. Im more concerned with an AD then me putting my finger in the wrong area. Someone mentioned snap caps. Im assuming they are like blanks that you can keep in the gun to give you confidence? One thing I believe is having fear of the gun is a good thing. When people don't fear their guns they make mistakes.
 

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Had the same "fear" when I first got a pistol.

A good holster which covers and protects the trigger is needed.

Remember when re-holstering,make sure no clothing is in the way to snag the trigger. If needed,tuck in any outer garment so it's out of the way when you holster the weapon.



There is no award for the fastest re-holster.



Practice with empty gun so you can find the holster opening without looking and without putting fingers in front of muzzle.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thank's everyone. Feeling like I may go with the K&D Cochise or Dakota Defender. What's the wait like for these babies? Couple months? I may have to get something to tide me over until it arrives if that's the case.



EDIT: Just ordered the Don Hume IWB from MP-store to hold me over. I think I'll eventually order the Cochise from KD, looks to be a great holster.
 

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OldmanSnake said:
Im more concerned with an AD then me putting my finger in the wrong area.


Putting your finger in the wrong area is really all that is going to cause an AD.



Watch your gun as it goes into the holster, it's safe when it's in the holster, and when you draw it...don't put your finger on the trigger till your ready to shoot.
 
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