[u.s.armorer]

anyone tried the new ctg for the m&p yet?been looking at them since they came out not sure if i want to pay almost $300 for them though.

 

[UPSguy]

$250 seems to be the going price for them. I have a set on my .45.

 

[sholling]

I have them on 2 1911s and will be buying a set for my M&P45, probably in March. And another as soon as they come out with one for the compacts.

 

[Bowie Tactical]

I know this is a self serving answere but, I use them on all my working guns. I hate running without them now. They do really help in mid to low light. I have shot them alot and they hold zero very well and I have been able to shoot very very good groups with them.

Now the shamless part. I carry them in the shop for Glocks and M&P's. $265 plain and $295 with my stippling on the M&P's.



CHECK 360

David Bowie

 

[greener]

I put CT grips on my M&P9 a month or so back. Once zeroed, they work very well and seem to hold the zero. I really like as an aid for working on trigger technique. I can shoot consistent groups with the laser.



The only "cons" I can find is that I wish they had detents on the windage and elevation so you could change the POI by "clicks." It would make it easier to track adjustments, although getting the thing zeroed wasn't all that hard. The other con is if you want to work with the sight on a bright day, you are out of luck. Very hard to see the laser.



The pro's outweigh the cons.

 

[ToddG]

If you do a search for "lasergrip" you'll find many discussions about this in the past which might help you.



I'll join the bandwagon in favor of the grips. I've been using them on Berettas, SIGs, and and now my M&P for a total of about 10 years. They're not the cure for every ailment nor the solution to every problem, but they give you a lot of advantages a lot of the time.

 

[mity2]

i really want to get them.

But only issue I have - other then price - is that they only come in midium insert equivlant, and I've been trying to practice with midium insert(I use small), and I'm having hard time shoot well with mid sized inset

 

[tmodesto]

I looked into CTC on M&P 9 seems to be a nice feature especially that fits M&P perfectly without need of assembly BUT average $250-270 costs is 50% cost of the gun's value and it's not something you can use it for your other guns and is not justified at all (at least for me) IMO price should be in range of $100s to make sense otherwise 50% upgrade does not make sense (hope some people from CTC see this forum and crunch their number strategy again

)

 

[ToddG]

Before CTC "crunches their numbers again," can you explain how you came up with the $100 number? What do the diodes, wiring, switches, etc. cost? What is the cost of manufacturing, testing, warranty? Add in their cost of the accessories that go in the box, the box itself, shipping ... Then there is the cost of advertising, engineering, customer service people, receptionist, salesmen ... keeping the lights on, paying a lease on their factory, health care for employees ...



If you can crunch those numbers and still get a decent return on their investment at $100 a pop, I guarantee you they'll be interested to hear your report.

 

[Bowie Tactical]

I have to jump in with ToddG on this one. I was involed in some the meetings with the M&P unit that changed the grip from it's prototype form to what you see now. I can tell you that this grip took alot of work and T&E to get the great product you see now. Plus the CTC units are the best in the industry. They use good compoments and spend time and money making sure the final unit is up to snuff. All this costs money. Remember we all work to make money to pay the bills. If they cut the cost to a very low profit then they go out of business and you have no laser unit to buy.

Those of use who depend on tools like this in hard use jobs are glad they cost what they do. You get what you pay for. I have tried by request the lower price units. They won't take the hard use the job demands.

Crimson trace consulted with me and some other very good people on these grips and I can tell you they tried hard to meet a good price point and make money.

I hate to sound like a company owner (since I am one) but like i stated before. We all have to make a living.

Be glad companies like CTC exists. To many of them over the years have tried to sell low budget. low quality lasers and gave the whole product a bad name. CTC has elevated it to a true usefull fighting tool.



CHECK 360

David Bowie

 

[tmodesto]

Although I am not in "GUN LASER MAKING" business; and I don't want to go through detail of that and I don't have that information either but I am sure even with price of $100s they are still making a good profit on top of that they would multiplying their sales.



Now how I came up with $100s price range?; simply becasue of the value added to the to my main product. If S&W can make a gun which is a precise tool and cost of manufacturing, the box ...(and all those thing you mentioned) and gunshop sell it to you for $300 (SIGMA) or ($480 M&P) and on top of that Smith give you $50 rebate and 2 mgas (another $50) and lifetime warranty including both way shipping: paying $300 for lasergrip for that gun is out of question.



It's like to upgrade your $30,000 truck with $20,000 light to make your night visibility better.

 

[tmodesto]

Although I am not in "GUN LASER MAKING" business; and I don't want to go through detail of that and I don't have that information either but I am sure even with price of $100s they are still making a good profit on top of that they would multiplying their sales.



Now how I came up with $100s price range?; simply becasue of the value added to the to my main product. If S&W can make a gun which is a precise tool and cost of manufacturing, the box ...(and all those thing you mentioned) and gunshop sell it to you for $300 (SIGMA) or ($480 M&P) and on top of that Smith give you $50 rebate and 2 mgas (another $50) and lifetime warranty including both way shipping: paying $300 for lasergrip for that gun is out of question.



It's like to upgrade your $30,000 truck with $20,000 light to make your night visibility better.

 

[tmodesto]

All this costs money. Remember we all work to make money to pay the bills. If they cut the cost to a very low profit then they go out of business and you have no laser unit to buy.

I agree with you on cost of high quality and everyone works to make money BUT at this price they selling to smaller market of handgun owners (at leas in range I am going among more than 8 owner of M&P and only one has has it and he has 2 M&P's) but at lower price range I belive their sale would explode, specially on products like M&P or XD. Simply they can ran a trial speciall rebate offer or something to see it. IMO $300 upgrade to $480 product doesn't make sense (if your life of job relay on this that's different story and you have to pay whatever it takes to get good prodcuts like this)

 

[UPSguy]

Tmodesto, no offense is intended by this but maybe you aren't CT's target market. The base price of your chosen pistol has no bearing on what an effective, proven addition to a fighting gun costs. I am still waiting for my second one straight from CT, seems they cannot keep any for themselves.

 

[ToddG]

The base price of your chosen pistol has no bearing on what an effective, proven addition to a fighting gun costs. .

+1



And to follow up to tmodesto's question ... if I had a $30k truck and needed a $20k accessory to make the truck do what I wanted it to do, and there was no other way to get those same necessary features, then I guess I'd either pay the $20k or go without those features.



I admit, it's easy for me to say because I've never had to pay for a set of Lasergrips. But if that changed tomorrow, I'd simply consider it part of the cost of buying a new gun. Because personally, I consider it far too useful and feature-rich to be without on my everyday carry/training/teaching gun.



The only exception I might make to that would be if I was using a Glock, because the lack of a master on/off switch would make for complicated daily practice without the laser active. I've got a G17/22/31 set (currently living on a G17T, my only Glock) and I suppose I could just get used to popping them off to remove the batteries for part of a range session, but it seems like a real PITA.

 

[tmodesto]

Tmodesto, no offense is intended by this but maybe you aren't CT's target market. The base price of your chosen pistol has no bearing on what an effective, proven addition to a fighting gun costs. I am still waiting for my second one straight from CT, seems they cannot keep any for themselves.

No offense taken, and I agree with you that I am not CT's target market so many many other handgun owners. Remmeber, this thread started by a member (US ARMORER) who was asking that he was looking for this product but he wasn't sure if $300 is price he is willing to pay or not (it means he wasn't in CT's target market either), and I replied to him it's a good product but IMO not worth that price tag.



And the reason CTC can not keep any is not that every M&P owner bought them like hot cake and they can not keep up with a mass market demand, simply because their production is low, they have variety of products which are not interchangable and marketable for other guns so their production is relatively low (and that's one of the reason price of this product is high). Don't get me wrong I am not arguing about quality or usefullness of the product, what I am saying at $300 it's too pricy to MAJORITY of gun owners. I know more than a dozen LEO whose their life is depend on their side arm and NEITHER have laser on their duty or off duty weapon, and ALL of them easily can afford to spend $300 if that make a BIG difference in their gunfight ability.

 

[UPSguy]

$300 (nobody is actually paying that though) may be a turn off to the majority of gunowners who view it as a toy but not to gun owners who are serious about giving themselves every possible tool to win a violent encounter.



People come into the shop all the time and walk out with a J frame with CT grips on it. Why aren't they complaining about the price? Because many if not most J frame buyers are looking for a serious last chance defensive tool. The addition of CT grips makes it a slightly easier task to make a hit when poo poo hits the fan.



I am getting from you, and others that the grips are overpriced because of how much they cost compared to the host weapon. The cost of the weapon has nothing to do with what CT grips should cost. I believe (my opinion) that if CT grips were over priced you would not have SWAT cops like David Bowie on our forum here extolling their virtues.



I am going to stay out of this topic now as I know my next post will get edited and I don't want to give Jester anymore to do.

 

[ToddG]

Before we start talking about whether a CTC grip is worth it for your everyday gun ... do you own any other handguns? Because if you own more than the one (or two) guns you carry, is that money wasted?



If I had to choose between a spare range fun-gun and a fighting tool for my carry gun, I'd choose the thing that improves my fighting gun every time.



I know a law enforcement officer or two myself. Some of them use the laser, some don't. In the "don't" category, most of them would but can't due to agency/department rules. Some don't like the feel or size of the grips.



Some don't think the laser will make a difference, and among them, the price is usually a factor. They'd spend $50 on something that may or may not work, but they're not going to spend $250. I find that these tend to be the same people who wouldn't know the difference between an FMJ and a JHP, and think of their pistol the same way they think of their radio ... don't care who makes it, it's issued and it's staying the way it is. Just like they won't spend their own money to install high-performance brakes on their patrol car ...



But, to parrot what was said earlier, I don't want a $50 or $100 set of Lasergrips. The durability, reliability, etc. are things I'm not willing to compromise.

 

[UPSguy]

If I had to choose between a spare range fun-gun and a fighting tool for my carry gun, I'd choose the thing that improves my fighting gun every time.

Cannot say it any better than that.

 

[Hondov65]

Before CTC "crunches their numbers again," can you explain how you came up with the $100 number? What do the diodes, wiring, switches, etc. cost? What is the cost of manufacturing, testing, warranty? Add in their cost of the accessories that go in the box, the box itself, shipping ... Then there is the cost of advertising, engineering, customer service people, receptionist, salesmen ... keeping the lights on, paying a lease on their factory, health care for employees ...



If you can crunch those numbers and still get a decent return on their investment at $100 a pop, I guarantee you they'll be interested to hear your report.

Maybe one of the moderators could start a list to see how manny would be interested and we could do a one-time discount group buy with Crimson Trace for our M&P's. [/size]