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OK, I am new here but I have seen a few posts where people are cutting their tails off.



When I was researching 1911's it seemed that people were adding beaver tails? My understanding was that the beaver tail was there to protect your hand from getting pinched from the slide.



Is the purpose of removing the tail on the M&P just to make is smaller for CC? We don't have the ability to CC here in Jersey so that will never be a concern for me but I was curious.
 

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It's funny really! You have people paying money to have their 1911's modified with a tail. Other's pay a premium for a SIG "Elite" so they too have a tail. Then S&W has the foresight to incorporate the tail (a modest one at that), into their M&P design, and people want to cut them off!



Some people would lady if you hung'em with a new rope! :roll:
 

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I don't know why people do it. I really like the beavertail. Fits into my hand nicely and reduces muzzle flip. Also allows for better indexing. You don't have to worry about hammer or slide bite on these pistols so I assume S&W put it there to help reduce muzzle flip. It doesn't impact my ability to carry. I don't much care for Sigs beavertails. I don't think they sit right on the pistol to do much of anything useful.
 

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Not me.



Biggest draw to the M&P and an XD OVER a Glock for me, is the fact I can hold the handgun high thumbs forward and not get eaten up by the slide. I own 3 Glocks but rarely shoot them because of this. I also bought 2 Sig Elites for the same reason. The Sigs never "bit" the hand but that half a tail on the standard models just kills the web of my hand.



Had Glock not ruined the gun completely with the stupid finger grooves, another thing that make them uncomfortable to me, and if they had just a bit more of a beavertail, I may have never tried another brand of plastic gun.
 

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Ok here is why I had mine bobbed. I was always cracking my elbow on it while holstered and since it never touched my hand anyway, I had it chopped.

It may have been a little more useful if I had a .40 as it has more muzzle flip but in my case, it was just in the way.
 

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gaspipes said:
Not me.



Biggest draw to the M&P and an XD OVER a Glock for me, is the fact I can hold the handgun high thumbs forward and not get eaten up by the slide. I own 3 Glocks but rarely shoot them because of this. I also bought 2 Sig Elites for the same reason. The Sigs never "bit" the hand but that half a tail on the standard models just kills the web of my hand.
X2 The beaver tail is exactly why I spent a few more $$$ on the Elite when I bought the P226....







The P226 without the beaver tail bites into my hand.







Just curious, does anyone have any pictures of a chopped M&P beaver tail?
 

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gaspipes said:
Not me.



Had Glock not ruined the gun completely with the stupid finger grooves, another thing that make them uncomfortable to me, and if they had just a bit more of a beavertail, I may have never tried another brand of plastic gun.


Yes, Glock's finger grooves is what caused me to sell both my G17, and G26. They felt totally out of place for my hand.
 

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AZ Outlaws said:
Just curious, does anyone have any pictures of a chopped M&P beaver tail?
Not my gun but here you go:

 

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beveartail grip safety in 1911 is primarily designed to release or deactivate the safety (i.e., allowing the gun to fire) or pull the trigger to decock. M&P has no hammer to decock plus its slide-to-frame position is farther rearward compared to 1911 which affords a relatively enough roof to cover hand from getting caught by slide which renders it awkward and inept for this purpose. bevear tail is vestigial part of M&P, a remnant, reminiscent of 1911 IMO it has to go. :wink:
 

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The tail doesn't really bother me at all. I'm a purist when it comes to things. Why change it if it ain't broke. Now if the guy above said he's hitting his elbow on it, well, thats a good reason to have it trimmed down, but I haven't really heard that as a problem from anyone else. It's one of the distinctive characteristics of an M&P. I say keep it unless it really bugs you, then you can take it off yourself fairly easy.
 

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that makes you a conservative not a purist. as i've said it's vestigial it's not supposed to be there in the first place and by the way i'm a purist. :wink:
 

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My wife and I thought it looked stupid, and out of place, so I had Dan remove it. Not only that, but it never came in contact with my hand so it was of no use. Will definitely have it done on any future M&P's.

 

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Well, they are your pistols, so of course you can modify them anyway you want and I would never say otherwise. People have been adding parts and subtracting parts from guns since there were guns, and they always will.



A little more on grip and why the tail is important to me.



Back in 2002 I attended classes at TDI in which John Benner and David Bowie taught me how to hold a pistol the proper way(combat grip, Leatham-Enos grip, high thumbs forward...whatever you want to call it) and that grip works. Is it the only way? No, of course not. Is it effective for fast follow up shots and overall gun control. Absolutely! That grip is taught in most of the major shooting schools as far as I can tell.



There is an article here about the "combat grip" well worth the read. http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/



Now, I used a Glock 23 back in 2002 for the 24 hours of training at TDI. (3) 8 hours classes over a weekend. I don't remember how many rounds were fired but I think the ammo requirement was 1,000 per class minimum or something close to that. You could of course shoot more, which most people did. I believe I shot around 4,000 rounds total in the 3 days. On paper, on steel, in the live fire house.



That Glock litterally wore my hand out. Here is a picture I found on the internet that best shows what happens with a Glock when the "combat grip" is used.







You can see on that skinny hand how the slide can get the meat of the hand right at the knuckle of the thumb. A little extra meat in the web of the hand or a larger hand(which I have) makes this much worse. You can look on David Bowie's web site and see that he actually adds beavertails to Glock pistols and this is why. He has been doing this since at least 2002 or before when I first met him. He was stippling grips at that time as well and at the time I had never seen anything like it.







When you have your hands high up in the grip tang of a pistol like shown above, it is liable to make mince meat out of your hand. Will it on YOU PERSONALLY? Maybe not, but I would contend that for a large number of shooters, it would. The gun companies know this, which is why I believe Sig added a line with the beavertail. Also why the XD pistol has more of a tail compared to the Glock and why the M&P has the tail. I don't think the reason is because they want to be like 1911 so maybe a 1911 dieahard will try one.



In the photos of the cut tails above, there is still enough there to protect the hand(I think) and the cut tails look like the tail on an XD.



I don't think the tail is there for anything more than comfort. Getting the hand high on the gun as close to the bore axis as possible is what controls recoil and muzzle flip. I can do that with or without a beavertail on ANY gun. It's just a matter of which is going to eat up the grip hand and which isn't.



It is THE FIRST thing I check on any knew handgun I buy. Can I get my hand up high and not get bit? If I can't, I don't even consider the purchase.



I own I think about 25 handguns. In that lineup are 3 Glocks(23, 19, 20) 2 XD's(.40 service and .45 service) and recently an M&P .40 full size. I've shot extensively and owned enough handguns to know what I want and why I want it.(which I'm sure others have as well and may differ from what I want)



Anyway, that's my story on the tail and I'm stickin' to it. :mrgreen:
 

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man that pic of the Glock shows exactly what happens to me. I have permanent scars from using them bloody things, litterally bloody too.
 

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Is the purpose of removing the tail on the M&P just to make is smaller for CC? We don't have the ability to CC here in Jersey so that will never be a concern for me but I was curious
I'm in Canada (so no CCW here) and I trimed the beavertail on mine 8) Haven't shot the gun since the mod so don't know how it will effect anything, but I'm sure I won't notice any difference; since I don't have huge/meaty hands and was never touching the beavertail when I held/shot the gun (it just hang there)....Oh I also polished the slide 'equinox style...'
Anyways I like the gun more now :wink:





I'm not a fan of beavertails, Love them on 1911, but yet to see another guns that looks good with one...
 

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Wow! M&P just looks better without the beavertail, IMO. Perhaps S&W deliberately put that tail design so as not to be labeled that M&P pistols are glock copycats..
 

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Gave my 9mm a minni bob. Sits better on the hip, looks better and the extra bit of tail wasn't needed...





















 

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I like the feel I have with not having a bevertail, Dan did a great job on mine...



 

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gaspipes said:
A little more on grip and why the tail is important to me.



Back in 2002 I attended classes at TDI in which John Benner and David Bowie taught me how to hold a pistol the proper way(combat grip, Leatham-Enos grip, high thumbs forward...whatever you want to call it) and that grip works. Is it the only way? No, of course not. Is it effective for fast follow up shots and overall gun control. Absolutely! That grip is taught in most of the major shooting schools as far as I can tell.



:mrgreen:


Every time I read about this "high thumbs forward" grip I cringe. I've tried this grip under the watchful eye of several instructors, and can't hit the broad side of a barn holding a gun this way, nor do I find I get fast follow up shots or good gun control. I can't provide a photo right now, but I hold my handguns with my shooting hand thumb down and my support hand thumb over it. I think Massad Ayoob refers to this as the "crush" grip. I get better control of the gun, and faster follow up shots. I don't know why the thumbs forward works for others and not me, but I do not believe this should be advertised carte blanche as the "proper" way to hold a pistol.
 
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