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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I have to say I am very impressed with Dan Burwell! I drove out to drop my pistol off and he was absolutely a pleasure to talk to. Personable, friendly, we talked guns for a while and he gave me a small tour of his gunsafe's contents (some very nice pistols and projects in there!) and he just gives off the vibe that gunsmithing is truly a labor of love for him. That's very reassuring as a customer. So, okay, enough gushing, what about the gun?



I had him do several things, and he was very accommodating when it came to doing small touches how I wanted them. For instance you'll notice that I had the end of the stippling on the frame's thumbs-forward area rounded off instead of ending in a point, something more aesthetically pleasing to my eye. He made the mag cut outs at the bottom of the grip for an extra measure of peace of mind. I also asked him to polish the chamber and feed ramp, as well as "anything else you feel would benefit from some working over". He removed and polished under the extractor claw, as well as the breech face.



The backstrap is a large which he ground down to a medium, because the medium fits me best, but I wanted to retain the tange of the large since the trigger job would move the point that the shot broke back a bit.



The trigger job feels great, and the weight appropriate for a carry gun.



Turn around time was under a week, and in fact the only thing holding the gun up from coming back into my possession was MY schedule!



Pictures (The background of which are a free t-shirt he gave me which is very nice. I rarely wear anything with business logos on it but I genuinely like this shirt!):









 

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Well I have to say that is the finest stippling I have EVER seen! Absolutely amazing :!:



What weight to you think your trigger is at now?
 

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Dan is DA MAN!!



I only wished that he lived close to me or Vice-Versa!!



I would single handedly keep Dan busy!!



I can't wait to get my Compact to get Dan to Pimp my Ride!!



Y
 

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GaryXD said:
As much stippling that I have seen on this forum I guess it would be safe to say a lot of you don't shoot IDPA competition.


Or USPSA Production Division!!



Stippling is a No-No there too!!



Trust me, I have been shooting USPSA for 13 years and I was at the IDPA Invitational (the first one) here in Columbia in 1996. No messing with the Frames in either.







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ClosetCaseNerd said:
I personally don't, but I'd like to try. I understand it precludes you from SSP, but its fine in ESP.


Is Stippling OK in ESP??



I was told that the M&P is no longer legal in SSP??



Y
 

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Discussion Starter #9
http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf



Yes sir, I believe it is if I'm not mistaken.



m4arc, trigger weight is 3.5-4lbs as measured from the bottom most portion of the trigger (most mechanical leverage). Where my finger sits its probably 4-4.5. This is my carry gun, and I like it that way very much. I figure if it feels "just right" while your standing there dry firing under no pressure, you could be wearing a look of surprise if you ever had to draw on someone. I think how smooth the trigger is, is more important to the trigger's weight.
 

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ClosetCaseNerd said:
http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf



Yes sir, I believe it is if I'm not mistaken.



m4arc, trigger weight is 3.5-4lbs as measured from the bottom most portion of the trigger (most mechanical leverage). Where my finger sits its probably 4-4.5. This is my carry gun, and I like it that way very much. I figure if it feels "just right" while your standing there dry firing under no pressure, you could be wearing a look of surprise if you ever had to draw on someone. I think how smooth the trigger is, is more important to the trigger's weight.




So, both are true, the M&P is not SSP Legal?? and Stippling is Kosher on ESP??



Them rules are so confusing!!



BTW, USPSA Trigger Pull weights in Production division will be taken at the "Center" of the trigger, or at least as close to the Center as Possible, so the rules read as written today, theymight change in the future though.



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I would be interested to find out if they moved it out of SSP. The only thing I have read was in the Tactical Journal, Volume 10 Issue 1 (http://www.idpa.com/tj.asp?ID=120) where Ken Hackathorn said:



"I have just finished testing the new Smith& Wesson M&P .40 caliber pistol. It is a very impressive pistol. Its trigger system is very much like the Glock as the trigger retracts the striker about 125 thousandths of an inch before it releases the striker to fire the pistol…thus we should consider the M&P to be a Stock Service Pistol for IDPA. The M&P provides a 6.5 pound sear release followed by nearly 90 thousandths of over travel. This combination of heavy trigger and excessive over travel make the M&P a bit more difficult to shoot well when compared to the standard 5.0 pound trigger on the Glock. It is just a matter of time until pistolsmiths learn to tune the Smith & Wesson M&P triggers to a much more friendly sear release."



This reward movement of the striker is just like a Glock, so if the Smith is moved from SSP then I would fight to have the Glock moved out of there as well.



Additionally, I want to quote Ken again from Tactical Journal Volume 7 Issue 2



"A number of IDPA members have questioned why the Springfield Armory XD pistol is not allowed in SSP Division. Some folks who do not understand small arms design have stated that the XD is the same as a Glock. When it comes to the design of the trigger action and how it relates to IDPA they are wrong. IDPA criteria for SSP is that the trigger system be Double Action…..and for IDPA purposes the definition of DA trigger is that the trigger perform TWO actions. ONE, it cocks or retracts the hammer/striker, and TWO it releases the hammer/striker. In a Glock pistol, the striker is 2/3 retracted by the cycling action of the pistol. However, when you pull the trigger on the Glock, the trigger does retract the striker the final 1/3 of its movement and then releases the striker via the connector to allow the pistol to fire. This means the Glock trigger technique does both pull the striker back and release it...aka Double Action by IDPA definition. The XD pistol has the striker fully retracted in the cycling of the action. Note that little cocking indicator sticking out of the back of the XD slide (rear of the striker). All that the XD trigger does is release the striker….thus it is a single action pistol. The XD or HS2000 as it was first known as in Europe was marketed there as a single action. It was first brought into the USA by Springfield Armory as a single action. It is single action in IDPA and thus will be a ESP division handgun until they make a .45 ACP version. One clueless individual informed me that since the XD trigger also moves the trigger activated firing pin block it does two things thus we should call the XD a DA…Colts' Series 80 M1911 pistols do the same thing and we sure as hell aren't going to call them DA….so get over it. The XD is a fine pistol, I have one and really like it. But, it's a ESP pistol in IDPA…..and a darn fine one at that."



This would indicate that since there is both reward movement and then release of the striker that we would be SSP.



MI_Jester
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ysued, I was confirming that stippling is OK in ESP, as for the M&P moving from SSP to ESP I haven't a clue.



BTW, USPSA Trigger Pull weights in Production division will be taken at the "Center" of the trigger, or at least as close to the Center as Possible, so the rules read as written today, theymight change in the future though.


Dan made the trigger the exact weight I asked for from where your finger naturally rests. But, he also measured it at the bottom of the trigger (most mechanical leverage) so that I would know the weight a prosecution COULD come up with in court if I ever had to defend my actions. This being my CCW pistol, I think his foresight was very prudent. I like a heavier trigger, the most important part to me that is that it's smooth. Revolver DA comes to mind.



I think in stock form (or as otherwise conforming to SSP rules) there is no disconcernable inherent advantage between the designs of the Glock/M&P/XD. Maybe I am just naive as an outsider?
 

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Very nice. polishing the feed ramp and chamber is a smart way to add reliability. you shoulda had him remove the beaver tail as well. Nice gun.
 

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nikon777 said:
Very nice. polishing the feed ramp and chamber is a smart way to add reliability. you shoulda had him remove the beaver tail as well. Nice gun.




Why would you want to remove the beavertail?
 

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M&P9 said:
[quote name='nikon777']Very nice. polishing the feed ramp and chamber is a smart way to add reliability. you shoulda had him remove the beaver tail as well. Nice gun.




Why would you want to remove the beavertail?[/quote]



It looks stupid, doesn't serve a real purpose, and can snag on the draw.
 

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nikon777 said:
[quote name='M&P9'][quote name='nikon777']Very nice. polishing the feed ramp and chamber is a smart way to add reliability. you shoulda had him remove the beaver tail as well. Nice gun.




Why would you want to remove the beavertail?[/quote]



It looks stupid, doesn't serve a real purpose, and can snag on the draw.[/quote]



Well, yes and no!!



If you want a carry gun ONLY..... Yes, you don't need it!!



But in my case, this is my competition gun, I need the Beavertail!! I don't know how you hold your pistol, I use a very high hold, and if the Beavertail wasn't there I would loose tons of skin in the web of my hand. In all honesty, it doesn't bother me a bit, but I'm used to it on my 1911's. The compact doesn't have it, but then again the compact was specifically made as a CCW pistol, the Full Size was designed at an all around gun, even for competition.



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Discussion Starter #17
I'm considering it, but I kinda like it. I'm reserving judgement on the beavertail until I get my carry rig in. If it bothers me, then it'll come off, if not, no worries. Sometimes when I sit down with my OWB it catches my love handle and I make all sorts of funny faces
. Need to drop some weight.... :oops:



Matters of personal taste.
 

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ysued said:
[quote name='nikon777'][quote name='M&P9'][quote name='nikon777']Very nice. polishing the feed ramp and chamber is a smart way to add reliability. you shoulda had him remove the beaver tail as well. Nice gun.




Why would you want to remove the beavertail?[/quote]



It looks stupid, doesn't serve a real purpose, and can snag on the draw.[/quote]



Well, yes and no!!



If you want a carry gun ONLY..... Yes, you don't need it!!



But in my case, this is my competition gun, I need the Beavertail!! I don't know how you hold your pistol, I use a very high hold, and if the Beavertail wasn't there I would loose tons of skin in the web of my hand. In all honesty, it doesn't bother me a bit, but I'm used to it on my 1911's. The compact doesn't have it, but then again the compact was specifically made as a CCW pistol, the Full Size was designed at an all around gun, even for competition.



Y[/quote]







Good point. Im thinking strictly from a self defense perspective.
 

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ClosetCaseNerd said:
I'm considering it, but I kinda like it. I'm reserving judgement on the beavertail until I get my carry rig in. If it bothers me, then it'll come off, if not, no worries. Sometimes when I sit down with my OWB it catches my love handle and I make all sorts of funny faces
. Need to drop some weight.... :oops:



Matters of personal taste.


Yeah im trying to lose about 50lbs. my self.
 

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nikon777 said:
[quote name='ysued'][quote name='nikon777'][quote name='M&P9'][quote name='nikon777']Very nice. polishing the feed ramp and chamber is a smart way to add reliability. you shoulda had him remove the beaver tail as well. Nice gun.




Why would you want to remove the beavertail?[/quote]



It looks stupid, doesn't serve a real purpose, and can snag on the draw.[/quote]



Well, yes and no!!



If you want a carry gun ONLY..... Yes, you don't need it!!



But in my case, this is my competition gun, I need the Beavertail!! I don't know how you hold your pistol, I use a very high hold, and if the Beavertail wasn't there I would loose tons of skin in the web of my hand. In all honesty, it doesn't bother me a bit, but I'm used to it on my 1911's. The compact doesn't have it, but then again the compact was specifically made as a CCW pistol, the Full Size was designed at an all around gun, even for competition.



Y[/quote]







Good point. Im thinking strictly from a self defense perspective.[/quote]




And I'm only thinking in the Competition GameBoy Mentality!!



We are both right!!
 
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