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Discussion Starter #1
i was finally able to take my mp 9mm out shooting yesterday and several issues arose that i would like to get the groups opinion on.



the issue at the top of the list is decocking after last round fired. i was shooting with a buddy who has quite a bit more experience than i do and he expressed concern about having to dry fire to decock after emtying a magazine.



is it best practice to just dry fire to "get the hammer down". or is there some other preferred method to decock it.
 

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In every competition after completing the stage the shooter must unload and "dry" fire the weapon before holstering! If it works there it works in my range session :wink:
 

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If the gun is empty, you don't have to "decock" (release the striker).



If the gun isn't empty, you can't decock because pulling the trigger will make a very loud noise.



The practice of dropping the hammer in IPSC (which then got adopted by IDPA) is a holdover from te days when only 1911s competed and a cocked hammer suggested a loaded gun. It was never intended to be "final proof" that the gun was empty, but that's what it's become now. It is a PITA for anyone using a mag disconnect gun but the people writing the rules are usually 1911 fans, not S&W semiauto fans.
 

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Having DQ'ed two people so far because they rushed the unload procedure with crummy extractors and went BANG on the hammer down part, personnaly I'm happy that rule is there.



But to the orginal question, dryfire shouldn't hurt a modern centerfire gun. Pleanty of people will dryfire their M&P many 1000's of times. Leaving it cocked and empty in your range bag or safe is not a big deal either. Don't sweat it.



Plus if you really want to, you can use the silly yellow lever inside your gun to decock the gun. You know the silly thing they want you to manipulate during take down as opposed to just pressing the trigger.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks for the replies. i feel better knowing this now. this is only my second pistol ever and my fiirst had a decocking manual safety.
 

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Vlad said:
Having DQ'ed two people so far because they rushed the unload procedure with crummy extractors and went BANG on the hammer down part, personnaly I'm happy that rule is there.


If a competitor rushes through the "show clear" portion of the drill, it's the RO's job to slow him down and actually check that the gun is unloaded like he's supposed to. If the shooter drops the hammer/striker and the gun goes off, the shooter gets DQ'd but the RO deserves a share of the blame as well.



You know the silly thing they want you to manipulate during take down as opposed to just pressing the trigger.


Which they put in there because the most popular striker-fired gun on the market has a long and infamous history of going off during disassembly. Like it or not, it happens ... regularly. So Smith tried to alleviate this issue.
 

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ToddG said:
If a competitor rushes through the "show clear" portion of the drill, it's the RO's job to slow him down and actually check that the gun is unloaded like he's supposed to. If the shooter drops the hammer/striker and the gun goes off, the shooter gets DQ'd but the RO deserves a share of the blame as well.


Actually the book is pretty clear on the issue. The shooter is ALWAYS responsible, the RO doesn't DQ them, the shooter DQ's himself. That said, you are right in the sense that the RO is supposed to watch out and minimize the risk. However there is always a shooter or another who feels the he needs to rush off the line for some reason. As long the shooter is pointing towards the back stop I'm not grabing his gun and making a stupid situation into a more dangerous one.



Which they put in there because the most popular striker-fired gun on the market has a long and infamous history of going off during disassembly. Like it or not, it happens ... regularly. So Smith tried to alleviate this issue.


Hmm .. I doubt the guns where going off. I don't doubt they went bang, but most likely the operator was involved by not actually unloading it. I fully understand why the tab is there, but who actually uses it? I'm actually ok with it, its unobtrusive, out of the way, and not actually required during the take down. I do agree that if the legal departament told them they had to have it, they way they've done is pretty much perfect from my point of view.
 

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ToddG said:
You know the silly thing they want you to manipulate during take down as opposed to just pressing the trigger.


Which they put in there because the most popular striker-fired gun on the market has a long and infamous history of going off during disassembly. Like it or not, it happens ... regularly. So Smith tried to alleviate this issue.


"has a long and infamous history of going off during disassembly"... Really? Just like the bat has a long history of hitting people...CRAP. People have a long history of making the gun go bang. It's not the guns fault, get it straight.
 

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Smith talked with a large number of firearms instructors when designing the M&P, both Police and civilian instructors, one of the big things they wanted was a pistol where you didn't have to pull the trigger when you are taking the pistol down, and Smith went along with their request and designed the pistol the way they wanted.
 

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Vlad said:
Actually the book is pretty clear on the issue. The shooter is ALWAYS responsible, the RO doesn't DQ them, the shooter DQ's himself. That said, you are right in the sense that the RO is supposed to watch out and minimize the risk. However there is always a shooter or another who feels the he needs to rush off the line for some reason. As long the shooter is pointing towards the back stop I'm not grabing his gun and making a stupid situation into a more dangerous one.


I know what the book says, and you're right. But the fact is that the RO is supposed to maintain safety. ROs all over the place have let the "speed-unload" become popular and acceptable. You're not supposed to give the "hammer down" command if you haven't personally verified the gun is empty. All too often, RO's just assume the gun is unloaded. That's wrong.



Hmm .. I doubt the guns where going off. I don't doubt they went bang, but most likely the operator was involved by not actually unloading it. I fully understand why the tab is there, but who actually uses it? I'm actually ok with it, its unobtrusive, out of the way, and not actually required during the take down. I do agree that if the legal departament told them they had to have it, they way they've done is pretty much perfect from my point of view.


If I pull the trigger, the gun goes off. I didn't mean to imply the guns were firing without anyone touching them, and for folks who took it that way I apologize for the confusion. As G56 pointed out, the need to pull the trigger to disassemble a gun is not particularly popular among instructors. I always use the internal lever to disassemble my M&P, specifically because I know people make mistakes ... and I'm a person.
Lots of people think they're too skilled or too careful ever to make a mistake, but I guess I'm just not that high speed.
 

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pardon but this discussion seems to be getting away from the original post, more importantly What is this manual safety decocker that that flash bang is talking about, i recently purchased a m&p 40 and i have no such item on the outside of my weapon please explain.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
fallsafe said:
What is this manual safety decocker that that bang-flash is talking about,


i was only referring to a previous pistol i had, a taurus pt945.



at the range today i did use the little lever inside the magwell to decock several times. didnt seem like a natural thing to do, but it is an option i suppose. i'll just keep on dry firing to decok i guess.
 
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