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Discussion Starter #1
I know the thread has been done to death on the validity of caring carrying hot vs chambering at the last second when trying to defend yourself... but



As a shooting newbie with less then 1,000 rounds experience and very little "carry" time, I plan to carry un-chambered for a while until I feel more confident.



now for my probably irrelevant question:



I store my MP with the slide locked open.



When I plan to carry with a loaded mag but not chambered, I first release the slide and THEN insert the magazine.

When I do this, even though there is no chambered round, the gun is cocked and ready to dry-fire.



Does this matter?



I know that you can't technically "de-cock" the M&P but, I've been dry-firing before loading. Does this matter. Should I not be doing it?



sorry if this is a dumb question.
 

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I wouldn’t store the gun with an open slide; why wear out the recoil spring and put tension on slide release, slide and frame…



If you want to carry the gun with an empty chamber that’s fine. Btw you might feel more comfortable with a DA/SA gun where you can decock the hammer and/or have the safety on.



If you dry fire a lot you should get snap caps.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks gray wolf

I only store it open because my wife makes me use one of those cable locks even though we don't have kids or anything. (she's still coming around to the whole "guns are good" thing)



I actually do own some snap caps but I probably don't use them as much as I should.



Thanks for your comments!
 

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Re: dumb qustion, should I "de-cock" when carrying

micah said:
I plan to carry un-chambered for a while until I feel more confident.


I commend you on your decision to move at a rate with which you are comfortable. Be safe, become more familiar with the firearm, and build confidence until you are ready to go hot. Consider teaching your wife the safe handling and proper use of the firearm also. People fear what they don't understand. :wink:



micah said:
I store my MP with the slide locked open.


As Gray_Wolf said, not wise. If you're going to employ the cable lock, at least release the slide to rest on the cable to relieve the tension on the recoil spring.



micah said:
When I plan to carry with a loaded mag but not chambered, I first release the slide and THEN insert the magazine.

When I do this, even though there is no chambered round, the gun is cocked and ready to dry-fire.



Does this matter?


Nope. Unless you're planning on leaving it in that state for a prolonged period of time.



micah said:
I know that you can't technically "de-cock" the M&P but, I've been dry-firing before loading. Does this matter. Should I not be doing it?


Don't worry about dry firing that thing those few times before you load it. That's an insignificant amount in the overall scheme of things.



You can trust me on this one, though: Dry fire 10 times as much as you live fire and you'll be a much better shooter MUCH faster. If you do that, then you should consider snap caps.



-B
 

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I wouldn't worry about it much. Only YOU will know when to carry with one in the chamber. I went through a slow progression when I first started carrying concealed.



First it was carrying a Glock w/o one in the chamber.

Then it was nervousness of having it loaded while in my truck, because I thought My Subs would cause a discharge.

after that it was unchambering when I got home and recycling the same round before I learned about bullet setback.



All I could advise is that you learn about your weapon's saftey/operation mechanisms and eventually "trust" your sidearm. Then it should be easier to "go hot".



"...tell your 'friend' to cowboy up and carry one in the pipe..." -Zipgraver
 

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LA_357SIG said:
I wouldn't worry about it much. Only YOU will know when to carry with one in the chamber. I went through a slow progression when I first started carrying concealed.



First it was carrying a Glock w/o one in the chamber.

Then it was nervousness of having it loaded while in my truck, because I thought My Subs would cause a discharge.

after that it was unchambering when I got home and recycling the same round before I learned about bullet setback.



All I could advise is that you learn about your weapon's saftey/operation mechanisms and eventually "trust" your sidearm. Then it should be easier to "go hot".



"...tell your 'friend' to cowboy up and carry one in the pipe..." -Zipgraver


Well said, and he's from Louisiana; damn you can't beat that... :wink:



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First gun I own

You can trust me on this one, though: Dry fire 10 times as much as you live fire and you'll be a much better shooter MUCH faster. If you do that, then you should consider snap caps.


Sorry for the silly question (not even sure I'm using quote properly), but dry firing refers to just pulling the trigger without any bullets, right. Practicing like that will help you get better faster? Is it b/c you are just getting used to the mechanics of it?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
...but to clearify

dry fire is firing the gun with empty chamber...


right, but once you've dry-fired, if you pull the trigger again, its not really "dry firing" because the pin isn't reset and you don't hear the click. In effect, after dry-firing you've now de-cocked the pistol and would have to rack the slide again before you can technically "dry-fire" again.



This leads back to my question, should I dry fire before inserting the magazine, since, when I rack the slide to make the gun "hot" for use, I will also be cocking the internal hammer anyway?



In other words, is it bad to keep the gun in a always cocked state? will that cause any un-necessary wear? I think Boris answered this question pretty well above, anyone else have any thoughts?



PS, thanks for some of the great previous replies. This forum is an excellent resource for newbies like myself.
 

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Micah,



Dry firing correctly is important. Squeeze the trigger directly straight back with the fleshy part of your finger behind your finger nail. The gun should not move left or right or up or down. Keep a firm grip but not a death grip where the gun is shaking. Key is to be consistant everytime.



One of the best things you can do is to get involved with IDPA shooting. Almost every range has them if not once a week, than monthly. It will get you up to speed and comfortable with your gun much quicker than just going to the range every so often. At least where I shoot newbies are always welcome and guided. Not welcome is the way the newbies surpass us old timers in a matter of weeks. At any rate, once you get started you will be hooked and your gun skills will improve dramatically.



http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/video/tips/G...tips/index.html



...see what works for you at the range.
 

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If you're going to carry your gun without a round in the chamber, you might as well carry a 5lb rock or hammer to hit the assailant with. An empty gun = useless in a moment of crisis. Most folks simply do not have the training required to draw and chamber a round in the fraction of a second that it takes for the proverbial feces to hit the fan.



If you're worried about carrying with a round in the chamber, you might want to re-evaluate why you are carrying in the first place. I realize that is a highly opinionated statement, but it's one that I firmly stand by.
 

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Tungsten said:
If you're going to carry your gun without a round in the chamber, you might as well carry a 5lb rock or hammer to hit the assailant with. An empty gun = useless in a moment of crisis. Most folks simply do not have the training required to draw and chamber a round in the fraction of a second that it takes for the proverbial feces to hit the fan.



If you're worried about carrying with a round in the chamber, you might want to re-evaluate why you are carrying in the first place. I realize that is a highly opinionated statement, but it's one that I firmly stand by.


I also agree with Tungsten. Also, if you keep dry firing your gun with a loaded mag in the gun, you are asking for trouble and an eventual negligent discharge. We are creatures of habit. If you keep pulling the trigger now with a clear chamber you may do so when you start chambering. It does not matter whether there is one in the chamber or not because there is always on in the chamber. We do not treat them any differently whether they are loaded or not. These guns are designed to be carried with one in the chamber all the time. Keep your finger off the trigger and the gun will not go off. Just my $.02
 

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I must agree with Tungsten. We had some deputies on our department carring their Glocks without a round in the chamber and they were disciplined on the spot. Most people (99.9%) can not draw chamber and fire two rounds in 3 sec. on target. I did a test on the range to show them. I was able to draw and fire 6 rounds on target before they fired there first round. I would do alot of dry firing and drawing from your holster.
 

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Free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it, so take this with as big a grain of salt as you like.

Unloaded gun = paperweight

If you ever need it, you're gonna need it NOW.

You won't have time to chamber a round.



Don't carry with the slide back. Makes it too easy for dirt and crud to get in the works.



If you want to use the cable lock, unlock the slide and slowly let it back against the cable.

Why stress things if you don't have to?



Finally, dry fire practice is a good thing, but DON'T dry fire with a loaded magazine in the weapon!

Hate to read about you shooting a hole in your wall......or worse.



Please don't take this wrong. I think it's a good thing that you're trying to think all this thru, but it sounds like you need more time to get comfortable with the weapon before you start to carry.

Get some more range time under your belt, and I think your comfort level will go way up.
 

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RJP3579 said:
Also, if you keep dry firing your gun with a loaded mag in the gun, you are asking for trouble and an eventual negligent discharge. We are creatures of habit. If you keep pulling the trigger now with a clear chamber you may do so when you start chambering. It does not matter whether there is one in the chamber or not because there is always on in the chamber. We do not treat them any differently whether they are loaded or not.




+1 on that. You're setting yourself up for failure, one day you'll press that trigger and there'll be a loud noise. Do yourself a favor, please get some professional instruction before you start to carry this gun.
 

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I am another one who agrees with Tungsten. I think the topic of the question suggests that more training is in order to become more proficient and confident with carrying a loaded firearm. One of the basic rules is to treat a firearm as if it were loaded all the time, thereby eliminating the need to carry it unloaded for safety's sake. I can think of numerous situations where a person would have little or no time to chamber a round if the need arose to defend yourself. Just my 2 cents....
 

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It doesn’t takes that long to chamber a round…I doubt it makes that much of a difference in time esp. with a bit of practice. :wink:



I guess dry firing a DAO gun with a mag safety is kinda a pain in the but. You’ll have to reset the firing pin by pulling the slide back after every shot. (NOTE: you don’t have to pull the slide all the way back as if you’re chambering a round; pulling the slide back an inch or so will reset the firing pin).



But I definitely think it can be done safely; take a empty magazine insert a span cap, chamber it, aim and fire, now rack the slide just enough to reset the FP w/o ejecting the span cap.
 

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First of all if you are going to carry with no round in the hole...there is NO reason to dry fire before or after inserting the loaded magazine. Just insert magazine and move on.



Second you should do whatever you need to do to get comfortable with carrying a round in the chamber ASAP!!! IMO you have to commit 100% if you are going to CCW. Otherwise you might even risk your gun being taken from you as you are trying to cycle the slide and then used against yourself or someone else. Situations that might not have been deadly to you...might be if you CCW and are not prepared.
 

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Gray_Wolf--- Here is a question for you. You are sitting in your car at a red light. A Bad Guy comes up and opens your car door, grabs your left arm and starts to pull you out of the car. How are you going to chamber a round?? Just one of endless possibilities.......... Not trying to start an argument, just trying to use common sense.
 

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I say do whatever you have to to get comfortable carrying. That being said, do not plan to draw your gun EVER if there is no round in the chamber. This means while you carry with no round in the chamber, you will not be able to defend yourself with your gun. Don't rush into carrying, wait until you're ready and if range time doesnt make you comfortable carrying hot, then do what you need to do, but be comfortable with it.

Also, racking the slide just enough to reset the firing pin is okay? I was wondering about this since I found out this was a possibility.

And a big +1 to NO DRY FIRING WITH A MAG IN. I did my trigger job, dry fired several times to check it out. (was very happy) Inserted the (loaded) mag to put it away, got distracted, came back, racked the slide just enough to dryfire again (not enough to chamber a round) and remembered the mag was in about the time the striker fell. :oops: No holes in anything but I wasn't far from it. Hopefully that's as close as I'll get to a AD/ND. Scared the crap out of me.
 
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