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Discussion Starter #1
What's your brand choice, and caliber, of EDC SD ammo in your M&P/M&P's?
In my FS 1.0 with the .357 SIG barrel I carry Winchester PDX1 125 gr. JHP's. In my FS 2.0 .40 caliber I carry Winchester RANGER-SXT 180 gr. and Federal HST 180 gr. JHP's.

L-R;
.40 RANGER-SXT 180 gr., .357 SIG PDX1 125 gr., .40 Federal HST 180 gr.
 

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I shoot 180 gr. HST's in my .40 FS and .40 PC Shield, but would feel good with the PDX or Ranger as well.

I've heard nothing but good about the Winchester loads.
PDX's are my carry ammo in my .45 Colt SA.
 

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I started with black talons in the early 90's, then followed the Ranger T line (RA45T mostly) until they decided my money wasn't good enough a couple years ago.

At that point I switched to HST (230gr and recently switched calibers and run 147's now) and have ran that for the last couple years, now I seeing Federal doesn't want my money anymore so I'll have to find something else.
 

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Those darn ammo companies ! If they don't want your money, I"ll take it !
If you have quality SD ammo in 50rd boxes for sale, that can be arranged.

If you haven't heard yet Federal is going LEO only with the 50rd boxes like Winchester did a couple years ago.
They are kind enough to sell you "the low life non LEO" the same ammo in 20rd boxes for the same cost as the 50rd though.
 

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I've heard of the change, I guess my days of buying .40 HST for $14.99 a 50 round box are over. Glad I at least got 4 boxes when it was cheap.
Looks like Targetsports USA has that 180 grain load for $29.99 per 50 now, still a lot better than paying $24 for a 20 round box at the LGS.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yeah, I heard about FEDERAL'S version of "a corncob up their butt!" Good thing I have several boxes of HST in different flavors. And, RANGER-SXT-T-SERIES as well.
SPEER and UNDERWOOD will accept my money just as well.
Keep an eye on RECOIL GUNWORKS https://www.recoilgunworks.com/
They have RANGER BONDED and T-SERIES .40 cal. ammo for sale all the time. 50 rd. boxes for $16.95-$18.95. That's where I buy mine when it's in stock. Get on their mailing list.
 

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Targetsportsusa jumped $10.00 a box a week or two ago, but my guess is once their supply is gone the fun will begin.
The same thing happened when Winchester did this.

I guess Underwood cycles through my gun, so if I have to pay premium that will be the way to go.
 

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Thanks for the link to recoiljunky, 5906SW.
Good prices, but it seems like they are out of stock on anything .40, unless you want a 500 round case of Golden Saber.
I'll get on their mailing list though.
 

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in my 9mm Shield, M&P compact & M&P F/S I run HST 147 grain, I have some +P stuff in the F/S gun as it's what I found a decent deal on at the time... 45 ACP Ruger SR1911 has 185gr Speer Gold Dot's, 95gr Hornady Critical Defense in the .380, AR-15 has TAP 55 grain...
 

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My preferred SD ammo has been .40 S&W Federal HST 180's for many years now, but I finally switched to Ranger T 180's due to the terrible case deformations that HST get in M&P mags. I have no idea if the deformations can cause pressure or accuracy issues, but it annoys me enough that I just don't want to carry them any longer.

No other SD or target ammo does this in my experience.. Even other Federal SKU's.


Not my image, but all my HST rounds look this bad or worse after only a short time in M&P mags.
 

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I run HST 124gr +P in everything. Occasionally, I will run Sig V-Crown 124gr or Critical Duty 135gr +P, if I get it cheap enough at gun shows.
 

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My preferred SD ammo has been .40 S&W Federal HST 180's for many years now, but I finally switched to Ranger T 180's due to the terrible case deformations that HST get in M&P mags. I have no idea if the deformations can cause pressure or accuracy issues, but it annoys me enough that I just don't want to carry them any longer.

No other SD or target ammo does this in my experience.. Even other Federal SKU's.


Not my image, but all my HST rounds look this bad or worse after only a short time in M&P mags.
GG,
i find this kind of odd... i`ve never had ANY HST`s do this as this pic shows.
I would think the ammo is being played around with a bit to much.
 

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GG,
i find this kind of odd... i`ve never had ANY HST`s do this as this pic shows.
I would think the ammo is being played around with a bit to much.
You might think that, but HSTs have always done this, and when you ask Federal, they will tell you that it is a problem with M&P Mag's excessive spring pressure and follower design. I can say that I do not "play" with my ammo, and i only rotate rounds out of a mag after about a year of carry time.

I love the performance of HST ammo, but I just find the case deformations to be a major annoyance more than anything. if you do a google search for HST case deform or similar search you will see quite a few examples. If I compare the casings of Range T or Remington Golden Sabers, both of which I have carried, you will find no such deformations occurring. All things being equal, I have to blame federal for using a casing with walls that are just too thin.
 

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You might think that, but HSTs have always done this, and when you ask Federal, they will tell you that it is a problem with M&P Mag's excessive spring pressure and follower design. I can say that I do not "play" with my ammo, and i only rotate rounds out of a mag after about a year of carry time.

I love the performance of HST ammo, but I just find the case deformations to be a major annoyance more than anything. if you do a google search for HST case deform or similar search you will see quite a few examples. If I compare the casings of Range T or Remington Golden Sabers, both of which I have carried, you will find no such deformations occurring. All things being equal, I have to blame federal for using a casing with walls that are just too thin.
Yeah i would have to agree with what your saying. Though i`ve never done a search on the HST`s for issues like this, only because i`ve never seen this happen with mine. I guess i`ll have to re-evaluate my SD ammo more often. I might rotate my SD ammo, but not as often as most people do.
 

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GG,
i find this kind of odd... i`ve never had ANY HST`s do this as this pic shows.
I would think the ammo is being played around with a bit to much.
Same here, Pa Pow.

I can't imagine mag spring pressure doing that to any round, much less Federal Brass. If you think Federal is thin, Winchester is even thinner.
I reload both, so know the case capacities.
And if case walls on HST rounds were that weak, the case would crumple during the bullet seating process.
The only cartridge I know that has brass that thin near the case mouth is the .44/40. Most guys seat the bullets and crimp in two different stages for that reason, instead of doing both in one operation.

For a magazine spring to do that to a case, the spring would have to be so strong that you'd have a heck of a time even loading the mag, and you'd have to have a sharp edge on your follower where the dents occur as well.

You'd have to put the mag and round in a vise or vertical press to get it loaded.
Then there would be so much pressure against the bottom of the slide that the pistol wouldn't cycle from the drag.

Federal HST's wouldn't be by far the most popular SD round in the country, used by most LEO and many other knowledgeable shooters as well, if the brass was that weak or problematic.


I found one instance when I googled, where a guy was having that happen on 9mm HST's. His rounds all had a more rounded channel, right below where the base of the bullet would be, and all his indentations looked exactly the same.
He said the denting problem was the worst in his Glock 26, but it did it in his other 9mm's too,
That would indicate a problem with the ammo, not the gun.
gglass, your's appear to be more of a sharp crease , and some are worse than others.

It's possible you just had a bad batch of ammo, or there is a problem with your particular M&P.
You'd have a hard time convincing me, or anybody else that carries HST's in an M&P that it's sub par ammo.
Or for that matter, the guy that had a problem with his HST's, convincing all Glock owners that HST ammo is to be avoided, just because of his experience.
 

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Guys,

I am not trying to convince anyone to ditch HST. I simply posted why I personally have stopped carrying them after doing so for 10 years. This is not some new phenomenon from one batch or caliber of HST, nor is it from a single M&P. This has been going on since I first started carrying HST a decade ago. I was one of the early adopters of Federal HST and shouted its virtues from the top of every gun forum i could.

When I first noticed the creased casings back when I first started carrying HSTs, I simply chalked it up to being a new cartridge and figured Federal would do something about it eventually... To date, this has not happened and recently decided to move my EDC ammo selection to my SECOND favorite type, which is Range T. I simply pointed that out on this forum since the OP asked.

If you believe that I'm bashing Federal HST, then you are mistaken. I believe that it is a superb cartridge, and even believe that all my dented rounds are safe enough to fire. But, I made a recent decision to move to another superb cartridge based on a personal pet peeve.

As to others who have experienced this issue, I will post a few links to show that I am not a lone voice in the wilderness:

https://mp-pistol.com/mp-ammunition/20789-federal-hst-dented-cases.html
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-153750.html
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Federal_HST__40_Case_Deformation/5-1401305/
https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-ammunition-ballistics/72391-federal-quality-standards-uplula-damage.html
https://fnforum.net/forums/fn-fnx/51265-fnx-magazine-denting-casings.html
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/is-this-normal.726682/
https://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-22582.html

As to this happening in my one M&P, I can only say that as a member of this forum since 2008, and owning at least 15 or 16 M&Ps over the years (lost count), I can say with confidence that this has been happening with boring regularity... I just never spoke up about it before. This is again just a pet peeve that I finally addressed by switching brands.

As to mag pressure causing this issue... That is one of the two reasons that Federal told me over the phone when I called them a couple years ago. I was told that the M&P spring pressure and/or the follower design was causing the creases, and it was not an issue with their case design. I left it at that and kept carrying HSTs in my various M&Ps until recently.

I don't expect anyone to follow my lead or start a movement here. I simply answered the OP's question as it pertains to my choice of SD ammo and my reason why.
 
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I`ll stick with the Federal HST`s until i see problems with it, which i have not seen in any of my guns.
I like the winchester SD ammo as well, and i would never have a doubt carrying it.

Thank you GG for posting what you did, its good to be aware of things like this!
Just never know, unless your looking for it! Or find it by accident.
 
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