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Discussion Starter #1
Having a small epidemic of these in my 9mm full size but none with my 9c.

While I recognize that it's most likely caused by me limp wristing,I notice that the full size's slide is easier to rack than the compact's.

Is the full size recoil spring weakening (4K rounds) or should it feel a little weaker than the compact by design?

I wonder if a weaker spring returns the slide to battery a bit more slowly and thus doesn't engage the extractor as fully as it should.

If this could be the cause,it's easy enough to install a new factory guide rod assembly.



Is any of this reasonable or am I full of **##*?

Please be "nice"
 

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Your fullsize recoil spring is fine - 4000 rounds is nothing. Recoil springs on compacts are generally tougher.
 

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At 4k rounds, a more likely suspect is a dirty extractor claw or debris in the extractor slide cut. It could also possibly be buildup in the chamber. I certainly wouldn't expect the recoil spring to need replacement at 4,000 rounds unless you've done something to abuse the spring somehow.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks guys;

I've done all the cleaning except the extractor slide cut. (I'll try to remove the extractor soon)

It appears,however,that what I probably have to fix is my wrist.
 

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Shooting with one hand or two?



With two, it might be your grip. There's a video floating around here of the "thumbs forward" grip. Made a huge difference for me.



Single handed, not sure what to say. I can shoot strong hand with some accuracy but no malfunctions. Weak hand I'll get a jam now and then.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
UPDATE; Now having this problem very frequently (1 per mag) on 9mm full size.

(Fired case still in chamber-next round behind it coming out of mag)A double feed.

(This gives great experience clearing type 3 malfunctions)

Has approx 8,000 rounds thru it.

At a shooting course Mon-Weds was told it wasn't my grip and could be weak extractor spring or slightly bent extractor arm.This by a VERY experienced shooter and also instructor.

He also did a full cleaning of extractor (which I have been doing anyway)AND cleaned chamber with chamber brush and crocus cloth. Malfunction still happened.

Happens with WWB AND Fed Amer Eagle.

Had to switch to 9c to complete the course.

Problem only started 3 weeks ago.

Sending back to S&W tomorrow for repairs.

Will advise results when pistol comes back.
 

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How many pounds does the MP9 standard recoil spring have?



I also read several having similar problems using WWB.
 

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WWB is notoriously weak. It's been the culprit in countless Glock 9mm complaints, among others. Nonetheless, given its ubiquitous presence at ranges and gun shops we can reasonably expect our 9mm pistols to work with the stuff.



Since Fish's problem developed over time, and assuming that the work done on the gun really did eliminate the possibility of debris in the chamber, on the extractor, or in the extractor slide cut, then my guess is a chipped extractor.



Fish, do you ever drop a round into the chamber through the ejection port and then allow the slide to close on it?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Todd says;"Fish, do you ever drop a round into the chamber through the ejection port and then allow the slide to close on it?"



Only during the recent shooting course during practice clearing malfunctions and then only a few times.The problem predates any of this.



The only thing NOT done was removing the extractor and cleaning the slot it rests in.

I don't have the tools to do this correctly so I'll let S&W do it if needed.

I can't see a chip in the extractor but I'm no expert and it's hard to fully see the inside of the claw.



I am told the standard recoil spring is 16lbs.
 

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I've had extraction failures on other guns due to gunked up extractor slide cuts. It was particularly problematic with certain ammo (Remington "Leadless" 9mm played a role in countless extraction failures and eventually an extractor breaking in one of my SIG P226R-Navy guns earlier this year).



Hopefully, Smith will be able to give you some details as to what they find and what steps they took to fix it.
 

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ToddG said:
...then my guess is a chipped extractor.



Fish, do you ever drop a round into the chamber through the ejection port and then allow the slide to close on it?


What will dropping one in do?
 

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243ww said:
What will dropping one in do?


With the exception of the Beretta 92-series, I'm not aware of any handgun designed for this practice. So when you drop a round into the chamber and release the slide, the extractor is crushed into the case head and then forced to pop around the edge. The part wasn't designed to smash into things with that kind of force. Repeated enough times you'll most likely chip your extractor or otherwise reduce the extractor's reliability.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
243ww said:
[quote name='ToddG']...then my guess is a chipped extractor.



Fish, do you ever drop a round into the chamber through the ejection port and then allow the slide to close on it?


What will dropping one in do?[/quote]



I'm guessing the extractor wouldn't ride over the rim in the same way as a round fed from the mag. ToddG will correct me if I'm wrong
 

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The extractor doesn't ride over the rim during normal operation. The round begins sliding forward as the slide pushes it out of the mag. As it moves forward, it also moves up and the lip of the round slides in to the gap in the extractor. If you do it slowly, you can see how that happens.



MI_Jester
 

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Right. So in effect the extractor sort of gets into position before the shell is in the breach. Otherwise it would need to go over the rim and then into place... Never thought of that before?
This could lead to some extractor issues :?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Todd;

Sorry I didn't see your post re how extractor works before I posted my incorrect answer.

Also thanks for the enlightenment.
 

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Fish -- you certainly weren't far off and you got the fundamental point, which is that the extractor has to work differently if you chamber load. Glad if I helped a little.
 

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You might try hosing the extractor/extractor slot with a good aresol brake/carb cleaner or degreaser. It may flush any gunk out and save the trip back to the factory. Wear suitable eye protection and do so outdoors if possible. 'Tis truly amazing what that stuff will dissolve-that you didn't intend to.
 
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