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Discussion Starter #1
I have finally decided on a .40 cal. round to carry in my M&P. It was a hard choice.. I have been having an internal debate for some time about this... and after much reading, comparing ballistic tables, and looking at pictures of bullet expansion... I feel like the best round for me is the Federal 165gr. EFMJ round. (Click the link for even more info about the round.)







The idea, is that jacketing a basically hollow point round, with a rubber insert in the head.. will provide a more accurate round.. as it should not succumb to the aerodynamic problems of most hollow points. Not only that, but the round should not "plug", allowing for more consistent expansion across a wide variety of barriers. (IE clothing, drywall, windshields, etc...)











The construction of the round seems to be based on a very sound concept:











And the accuracy and penetration look to be pretty impressive.















Of course.. all this is just from me sitting here on my computer, looking into things.. I have yet to have shot a single round of this stuff. I decided, after weighing the cost, accuracy, expansion, of other rounds and decided that I would put some money on this. I was very interested in the Hornady XTP TAP rounds.. but the EFMJ looks like it is a better performer, and is less expensive. I bought 500 rounds from ammoman.com so I am putting my money where my mouth is.



If anyone else has experience with this round, I would love to hear your thoughts. I would also like to know if it is reloadable? I don't reload myself, but I have a friend who does... It's always cool to recycle whenever possible.



Raymond
 

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I've shot plenty of it in 9mm, but not since they reformulated it slightly. IIRC it used to be 110gr rather than 105. It was pretty hot, and shot much like a bunch of S&B 124gr ammo i had.



those weights in your chart aren't rright. They might be the "equivalent" weight.



As for the .40 it is 135gr at 1200fps, that's 5 grains over and 200fps under their lighter hydrashock. So the numbers hsould be reasonable



Is the brass reloadable? yes. However you can't buy the bullets, so you can't make more. (unless someone knows of someplace sellig them).



On the upside, at least around here, they are much cheaper than most other self-defense ammo. Usually about $17 a box of 50 for 9mm. sometimes on sale for as low as $12 a box of 50.



Accuracy was good, because it is a light fast round, it shoots nice and flat compared to comperable SD ammo. I was ddefinitely able to get the exact smae accuracy out of it as i was with a variety of ammo. However, at the time it was all 50ft or less.



As far as functionality, they should be on par with FMJ ammo as that is exactly what they look like and handle like from a mechanical standpoint. In something like a 1911, I'd definitely consider them over a regular HP.
 

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I've seen some articles on those, they seem to be a pretty good solution to the hollow point plugging issue, I haven't seen them in a store yet...I'll probably try some if I can find any at a somewhat reasonable price.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
YukonGlocker said:
I prefer a quality HP myself.


So did I my friend.. but I have been thinking.. and reading.. That's always a dangerous thing for me... LOL



Some common sense things struck me though. The aerodynamics of a hollow point just has to be affected by a big empty space on the nose of the bullet... and the fact that the expansion of almost all hollow point bullets depends on hydraulics. The EFMJ takes those problems out of the loop. Call me crazy, but this seems like a good bet.



I have always used either Hdra-shock, or Gold-dot ammo.. not because I knew much about them, but I figure if cops use them, then it's good enough for me... but the more I look into it, there are better alternatives out there.





For me.. I think the EFMJ round is a pretty good looking bullet. My second choice would be the Hornady XTP TAP round... for different reasons. I have to look at my own situation, and make a decision based on that. I want a round that will penetrate.. expand.. and is more accurate than I am. I think that both the EFMJ and the XTP TAP rounds suit that purpose.. but the EFMJ has an edge because it is less expensive, and makes more sense to me.



To each there own... but I do appreciate the discussion. If I am wrong about this, then I expect to be told so. I like the discussion.



Raymond
 

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I use the EFMJ, got a whole bunch from ammoman.com. They work great. I got them for my 4" 1911's. Liked them so much got a bunch in .40S&W as well. I also like the Corbon Powerball, Its a HP with a silicone plug in it but really expensive. But all in all I am more than satisfied with the EFMJ's. Matter of fact I should be getting another batch here on Monday!!
 

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The XTP is the most accurate HP I have tested. The Gold Dots and Rangers have performed the best in my own tests(penetration & expantion). I carry the Gold Dots because they are available locally for me. The Gold Dots are plenty accurate for me.



I have not tested the EFMJ, but I don't see a reason to. The only reason I would carry this load is if I had a gun that wouldn't feed hollow points; but then again, I wouldn't be carrying this gun in the first place.



What happens to the EFMJ after it passes through a hard barrier?



While an intriguing idea, in all the independent testing I have seen to date, the EFMJ has unfortunately exhibited inconsistent terminal performance. In no case, has an EFMJ performed as well as the better JHPs in each caliber. As with any ammunition product, what happens during the R&D stage and what happens in the actual production of millions of rounds stage, can be quite different. The EFMJ is dependent on velocity - needs to be at the upper end of the SAAMI envelope in all calibers, and the rubber/silicon used in the nose plug, coupled with the internal/external jacket scoring has to be 'just right' for it to work the way it was designed and did in initial testing. Tremendous concept! A bit tricky to consistently execute.



I will test some one of these days and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
YukonGlocker said:
EFMJ has unfortunately exhibited inconsistent terminal performance. In no case, has an EFMJ performed as well as the better JHPs in each caliber.




Well.. that doesn't make me very happy.. I hope you are wrong about that.. I just bought 500 rounds of the stuff!! I have looked carefully at the stats, and I have not found the negatives that you mention.. but that is the way people sell things I suppose.



If and when you do some testing, I will be looking forward to your results. I am expecting to get my 500 rounds on the 27th. I figure I will put 100 rounds into a wet telephone book.. another hundred into a deer head.. (It's the season.. I should be able to get somebody to donate a deers head) and another 100 or so into some paper. I will certainly post my results.



Raymond
 

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YukonGlocker said:
What happens to the EFMJ after it passes through a hard barrier?
The classic hollow points tend to plug after passing through barriers, and quite often they will plug when passing through clothing, which is why a lot of testing is done with layers of clothing draped over the ballistic gelatin blocks.
 

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If someone will donate a deer or 2 to you, do yourself a favor and go for center mass shots. A bullet in the deer's head will not prove anything. I won't go into details, but I have recovered some bullets from animals. Shoot a EFMJ center mass, then shoot a Gold Dot center mass. Compare the 2 wounds and recovered bullets!!




The next time I do some .40 testing I will try to include the EFMJ. I have some Double Tap Gold Dots ready to do some damage!!!
 

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G56 said:
[quote name='YukonGlocker']

What happens to the EFMJ after it passes through a hard barrier?
The classic hollow points tend to plug after passing through barriers, and quite often they will plug when passing through clothing, which is why a lot of testing is done with layers of clothing draped over the ballistic gelatin blocks.[/quote]



I know. That's why I asked what happens to the EFMJ after passing through a "hard" barrier; like sheetrock, plywood, glass, plastic, steel, and so on. The Winchester Rangers and Speer Gold Dots are very good about NOT plugging with clothing. Rangers and Gold Dots expand reliably even after passing through 4-6 layers of denim.
 

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I would really like to hear about some testing on this round that I'm sure you'll do Captin Ray. I'm firing Talons right now, but If the EFMJ's are all that their cracked up to be then I might change.
 

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I top off with 2 federal 135 efmj and the other 13 with federal 155 hydra shoks.

From what i have read from the few actual shootings with efmj these were the 155 grain varaity they had trouble expanding fully or not at all.

But the 135 efmj were supposed to be the fix.

I like the idea of the efmj in dry wall able to expand. And less wall penetration.

More actual shooting info would be nice but it should come over time.

my 2 cents



8)
 

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That was a cool test!!
 

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YukonGlocker said:
*various snippage*

I have not tested the EFMJ, but I don't see a reason to.





While an intriguing idea, in all the independent testing I have seen to date, the EFMJ has unfortunately exhibited inconsistent terminal performance. In no case, has an EFMJ performed as well as the better JHPs in each caliber.



I will test some one of these days and see what happens.


If you ahven't tested it, who has and where are you getting this info from?
 

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That's it for me. I changed all my defense ammo from Black Talons to Golden Sabers about two years ago and most recently to Gold Dots & to some extent Ranter Ts. To switch defense ammo it costs me about a grand for a good supply of all calibers and weights I need. I have to buy enough to make sure it's reliable in all the wepons it is to be used in and have enough left over for a good stash. I don't plan to switch again till 2016 when my defensive handgun ammo is ten years old. Always looking for good range ammo though. On second thought I may never change again because I will be 70 in 2016 if I make it that far.
 
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