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Discussion Starter #1
It appears that both Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST are highly regarded cartridges. Given identical weights and pressures in 9mm is there any reason to select one over the other? Or does it just get down to price and availability?
 

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I'm not a ballistics expert but I think that they are so close I'd go by price. Somebody posted Doc's list around here. Look it up and pick what you can afford.
 

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Yes, generally you can get more rounds for less money if you go with HST. HST is not bonded as the Gold Dots are but they still do very well through windshields, for example, the barrier that tends to make mincemeat out of so many rounds.



Here is the 9mm list from Dr. Roberts that was referenced in an earlier post:



9 mm:

Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)

Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)

Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)

Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)

Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)

Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)

Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)

Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)

Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks guys. I have seen Doc's list. In fact I have read a lot of the ballistics discussions on this forum. Especially the entries by DocGKR. It seemed to me that HST and Gold Dot are very close in performance, but for some reason Gold Dot seemed more popular. I wondered if there was something I was missing, considering the price difference.



One thing I see is that Gold Dot 124 +p is on the list and the HST 124 +p is not. Since many people prefer 124gr over 147gr that may be a reason for using Gold Dot. I wonder if the HST 124gr +P is not on the list because of performance or for some other reason.



Of course the bonded bullet might be another reason for the choice. Especially for LEOs.
 

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It is not on the list, because none of the agencies around here have asked us to test the 124 gr +P HST--I'll see if we can test some in the next couple of months and will report back what occurs.
 

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I went for the 147 grain HST due to price/performance. At less than half the price, the HST was a great buy. My best friend uses Gold Dot, but they are provided by his agency (and he shoots .40) so it's not his money going down range.



In my situation, the HST does everything I want it to do. I don't see many self-defence situations where I will have to shoot through windshields but I will need to have enough ammo to make sure it is reliable in my firearm. So, 500 rounds of Gold Dot would be ~$500 and 500 of HST cost me just under $200.



MI_Jester
 

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DocGKR said:
It is not on the list, because none of the agencies around here have asked us to test the 124 gr +P HST--I'll see if we can test some in the next couple of months and will report back what occurs.


While you're at it, if you happen to be in the mood to shoot something a little bigger...



I have been wondering for a while what the performance of the .40 S&W 165 gr HSTs was like compared to the 180 gr. I have seen many tests for the 180, but nary one for the lighter .40 loads.



Just something to keep in mind, if you happen to have extra time on your hands.
 

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choochboost said:
Yes, generally you can get more rounds for less money if you go with HST. HST is not bonded as the Gold Dots are but they still do very well through windshields, for example, the barrier that tends to make mincemeat out of so many rounds.
Federal didn't intend the HST to be a barrier buster. They intended the Tactical Bonded round for that. The HST was intended to make the biggest holes humanly possible with theoretical expansion of up to 210% of the original caliber - roughly 1" for a 45acp. The Tactical Bonded is limited (per Federal) to around 150%.
 

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sholling said:
[quote name='choochboost']Yes, generally you can get more rounds for less money if you go with HST. HST is not bonded as the Gold Dots are but they still do very well through windshields, for example, the barrier that tends to make mincemeat out of so many rounds.
Federal didn't intend the HST to be a barrier buster. They intended the Tactical Bonded round for that. The HST was intended to make the biggest holes humanly possible with theoretical expansion of up to 210% of the original caliber - roughly 1" for a 45acp. The Tactical Bonded is limited (per Federal) to around 150%.[/quote]

That's the serendipitous part about the HST. Orange County SD recently went with it because of what it could do through windshields.
 

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”The HST was intended to make the biggest holes humanly possible with theoretical expansion of up to 210% of the original caliber - roughly 1" for a 45acp.”


I know a couple of the guys that designed and engineered the HST. The goal was for robust expanding rounds that were less expensive and easier to fabricate than the rather complex bonded Tactical loads in order to challenge the Winchester Ranger-T in the marketplace.



The first try was not so good, but the HST's have matured into a superb product--I hope that Federal will drop the classic and Hydra-Shok lines in favor of HST's.
 

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According to Tom Burczynski, HST is a combo of two designs Burczynski showed Fed around 1999. One had a serated core, the other deep jacket notches. Fed combined the two, aligned the notches w the pre stressed core.



According to an article in Police Marksman by Shep Kelly in 2002, HST meant Hi Shok Two.
 

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DocGKR said:
”The HST was intended to make the biggest holes humanly possible with theoretical expansion of up to 210% of the original caliber - roughly 1" for a 45acp.”


I know a couple of the guys that designed and engineered the HST. The goal was for robust expanding rounds that were less expensive and easier to fabricate than the rather complex bonded Tactical loads in order to challenge the Winchester Ranger-T in the marketplace.



The first try was not so good, but the HST's have matured into a superb product--I hope that Federal will drop the classic and Hydra-Shok lines in favor of HST's.


In the 147HST how would you know if you got the current batch & who has them? Is Fed. on their second batch?
 

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It was some time ago. I'm going to say at least 5 years. I'm sure you're good to go with whatever you find available today. I'll try to look it up.
 

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Still seeing plenty of the first generation of HSTs at gun shows and on some local shelves. Also plenty marked "factory seconds - not for duty". Buyer beware.
 

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What would y'all be using if only wanted to buy one type of ammo and had to feed two firearms, one with a 3" barrel and one with a 4" barrel? I'm thinking the 147gr would lose too much velocity through the shorter 3" barrel, making it ineffective. Am I thinking too much?
 
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