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Discussion Starter #1
This weekend, I visited my local indoor range that has a pretty nice retail display of perhaps a couple hundred pistols. While waiting on a sales person to be free to show me one of their displayed Colts, I overheard a conversation between a prospective customer and a sales clerk (I'm hesitant to call him a salesman). The prospect asked a general question about a S&W auto. The clerk replied, " I never shoot Smiths - they're too "Glock-Like" in their safety". He went on to say, "I'm a 1911 man" and then proceeded to tell the prospect about the 1911 safety features in the XD.



The range has a couple of the M&P 45's, a 9MM and a 40 on display. I asked another salesman about their M&P sales. He says they sell 10 Glocks and 10 XD's for every M&P they sell.

I wonder why? :roll:



I've let the manager know about the conversation and my satisfaction with Smith products and Smith's management. If he responds, I'll post his reply.
 

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Well it works the other way as well so I wouldn't get too worked up. I went to a local shop planning on getting an xd in .40 or a Glock 23. When I told the salesman what I wanted to see he immediately told me that a lot of XD's were coming in for repairs and SA customer service wasn't the easiest to deal with. Then he promptly pulled me over to the M&P and I immediately fell in love with it. It wasn't even on my radar but I was sold, and he even sold one to my buddy who was just along for the ride.
 

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This is why it is imperative that you do your homework prior to visiting the gun shop!! Some guy making $8.00/hr isn't going to be my source of info!!
 

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oh, i thought this tread was about something else

i though this thread was going to be about sales people and racial/socioeconomic prejudices.



The other weekend i was in my favorite local gun shop where I noticed a small group of young adults who were dressed in what can only be described as a "thug-like" manner. You know, long oversized white t-shirts over baggy jeans with unlaced Timberland boots.



I'm not one to judge people, but sometimes stereotypes are true and I have to admit, I felt a little uneasy about the prospect of these guys window shopping for firearms. Perhaps this belongs in its own thread..... i'll stop rambling now.
 

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Everyone has their bias. The worst are the ones that steer the customer to the most profitable choices.



An argument can be made about any gun both for and against. Everyone is built differently and thus not every product will meet everyone's needs.



That said, when I was asked about duty pistols, I almost always sided with the Sigs for two basic reasons:



1) All the actions were virtually the same no matter the caliber or the size.



2) Takedown is one of the safest designs out there.



That said, the high bore axis and grip issues are also certainly negatives.



The M&P has pretty much won me over as it is so much easier to fit, carry, care for, and train that you almost have the perfect duty arm. A little grippier grip and the mag release sensitivity would be my only two real negatives. Both of these are fairly easily corrected for a specific person as needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
In one way or another, we all have our biases. Like many on this board, I love my M&P and want to "share the love". I feel mine is "perfect" after Dan B. did his full bag of magic on it. It is my favorite range gun.



I probably should offer full disclosure as to my opinion of Smith. Five months ago, I bought a little of S&W's stock. Almost immediately, I liquidated the profit to fund the purchase of my M&P 40, including Dan's work. I worked the remaining stock somewhat as a daytrader would do - in and out on the blips. The original investment has now grown over 40%. Now, there is a solid reason to tout the company.



In a small way, I've invested in a company that I believe in. They (Smith's management) are doing a lot of things right: Creating exciting new products, investing in efficient manufacturing equipment, expanding product lines, delivering quality products, providing good value, issuing lifetime warranty, made in USA, SA supporter, etc. In my opinion, they deserve front shelf, or equal attention.... particularly from a business where I spend money. If not, it will be my perogative to take my business elsewhere.



On the other hand, I will not use this forum to bash a company. The range or city will not be identified.
 

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I'm another one for whom S&W wasn't even on the radar. The last contact I had with Smith was the 6900 series and I swore I'd never own a firearm where the safety operated opposite of what I thought was ergonomiclly correct.



I was looking at ... hmmmm..what Was I looking at? High Power in .40, Glock full size (already have the compact 23), SIG and HK, even visited a store that had the Mauser M2 and had pretty much settled on a Steyr M40A1. At that time Stery had a few 'technical difficulties' with the US Gov't and some of their business dealings and it looked for a time that Stery would be unable to support their pistol. I saw my first S&W M&P about a week later and it was very nearly as comfortable in my hands, to that's what wound up following me home.
 

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How well do you know the store owner? If you are relative strangers, he may view you as a meddler. It isn't your business, they aren't your customers. He may not, though, and he may wish to know that his employees are selling one of the options short. I just think it is a little unusual that you inserted yourself in this way and don't be surprised if he isn't effusive in his thanks.
 

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Re: oh, i thought this tread was about something else

micah said:
i though this thread was going to be about sales people and racial/socioeconomic prejudices.



The other weekend i was in my favorite local gun shop where I noticed a small group of young adults who were dressed in what can only be described as a "thug-like" manner. You know, long oversized white t-shirts over baggy jeans with unlaced Timberland boots.



I'm not one to judge people, but sometimes stereotypes are true and I have to admit, I felt a little uneasy about the prospect of these guys window shopping for firearms. Perhaps this belongs in its own thread..... i'll stop rambling now.


Well as an African American myself, I feel the same way. I hate those thug/gangsta' wanna be types. I have a handful in my apartment building. Unfortunately most of the time they're black.
 

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+1 on doing your homework before you shop/buy.

I almost always know more then the gun store owner/clerk/commando whomever it is at that moment. Sometimes the owner doesn't have time to research all the breaking/current news in the world of firearms. It's not his fault as he is a businessman and has other things to worry about. The clerk's opininon is just that, and "in one ear out the other" with the commado, I usually try and avoid them at all costs. If I'm interested in something, I read articles in mags, books, or online and I ask some of the guys I know and trust about a certain products. It's not a put down on gunshop owners, but sometimes the people they hire can be irritating. I also know and understand that the same can be said of gunstore patrons as well, because I have witnessed and been bothered by "know it all customers" as well.

Just my $.02.
 

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When I was looking at getting a backup gun, I came across the review in Guns and Ammo for the M&P compact. I really liked what what the authors had to say and it looked like something I wanted to look into. So I went down to my local shop (a pretty good selection of handguns) and asked about the comparison between the XD sub-compact and the M&P. He told me that he didn't even know that S&W made a compact. I explained the piece I read and he then told me that the guns featured in a magazine aren't available for six months after the article is published. So I figured I'd wait, and save some cash. Then I came across this fantastic forum (I know, I'm a suck-up) and realized that a LOT of people already had purchased their compacts. So, I called around and lo and behold, several stores had a couple in stock. I was furious.



So after I purchased my .40c, I went back to the store/range and asked if they had gotten any in yet. They told me the same thing. Not available to order yet. So I took mine out of the case and showed it to him and he had the funniest look on his face. He picked it up and handled it and mentioned that he liked the way it felt. I told him that they were widely and he said "well, we'll have to look into it". Whatever. I certainly learned to really do your research and talk to as many people as you can before buying something new.



Yeah, I know, a long story to say the same thing as everyone else . . .. :oops:
 

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I hear you guys.

I haven't been following the gun industry the last few years, so I didn't really know what was out there.



When I was shopping at my local gunshop for a pistol recently, I was looking at Glocks, Sigs, and HKs. I didn't like the feel of the Glocks or SigPro, and I just couldn't see paying $800+ for a P229 or HK USP. The salesman didn't even suggest an M&P.



I had heard about the Springfield XD, researched them, and handled them at another gunshop, decided to get one, then went back to the original shop to order one. (I had store credit to use.)



When I walked in to order the XD, I saw a big display for the 2 free M&P mags and thought, "Hmmm...what's this?" So I looked at/handled the M&P's, went home to do some research, then went back the next day to buy one.



If it hadn't been for the free mag promo, I'd be on the XD forum right now! No thanks to the sales guy. Of course, he told me how great they were and that they sold tons of them--after I found them myself!
 

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When i was looking for my first gun they all steered me towards the XD at my local store and range. After spending lots of hard earned money and testing the Glocks and shooting the XD's i was not settled on any. Then i read on the board for the gun gunshop that they put a 40, 9 and a 9c in service. After reading some good things i popped over and shot all 3
And a week later after severla more visits i bought my fullsize 40 then the compact. Since then i have managed to convince the ppeps who work at the range to sell M&P's
The range office at one location is female about 110lbs and normally when people are trying guns to buy will tell them about the diffrent models. She has really been pushing the M&P especially the compact's as she really loves to shoot my 40
 

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Re: oh, i thought this tread was about something else

nikon777 said:
[quote name='micah']i though this thread was going to be about sales people and racial/socioeconomic prejudices.



The other weekend i was in my favorite local gun shop where I noticed a small group of young adults who were dressed in what can only be described as a "thug-like" manner. You know, long oversized white t-shirts over baggy jeans with unlaced Timberland boots.



I'm not one to judge people, but sometimes stereotypes are true and I have to admit, I felt a little uneasy about the prospect of these guys window shopping for firearms. Perhaps this belongs in its own thread..... i'll stop rambling now.


Well as an African American myself, I feel the same way. I hate those thug/gangsta' wanna be types. I have a handful in my apartment building. Unfortunately most of the time they're black.[/quote]



Personally I think its pretty ignorant to look a the way a person dresses or acts and automatically assume that they are up to no good. My experience being a young African-American going into any establishment that sells firearms I notice the clerks begin to act reserved and sometimes even like to completely ignore that I'm there in order to avoid showing me a product. By looking at me you know nothing about me but seeing that I'm young and "Black" I automatically fall into this category of "thug" or "Hoodlum". Actually both of those stereotypes cant be far from the truth I come from a proud family of servicemen and law enforcement. My fathers a corrections officer and a few of my family members are in the US armed forces. Given that my family just like many other families in the country contribute to making this nation safer for the rest of us, I feel that I should receive equal respect. Being an African-American yourself you shouldn't be so quick to judge people. I can imagine you've probably been racially profiled either in a gun store or by the police just based on how you look. I do agree that it is annoying to see so many so called "Thugs" acting out just to portray an image of what they think is cool but chances are the real "Thugs" and criminals in society look just like everyone else and i doubt that they would be in a gun store purchasing firearms. Think about it with all the paperwork and legalities you have to go through to get a gun "Legally" who would be stupid enough to go and commit a crime with something thats going to be traced directly back to their front door? To me stereotypes and racial profiling are just like gun free zones and repressive gun laws, there "feel good" actions that are based on marginal truth and don't really prevent anything. If every "Thug" like character we see on a day to day was in fact that wouldn't there be a lot more crime? Were all adults and although its hard we have to move away from our cultural, socio economical biases because at least one time in all of our lives we were profiled for something or another, how did that make you feel?
 

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I agree. however people will always judge your appearance. If i walk into a store wearing a super baggy jersey, jeans sagging below my butt, spewing broken English, people are gonna have a different impression than if you came in with simple jeans and a t-shirt, and were well spoken and clean cut.



Sure people shouldn't be judged by their dress or the way they talk but they are. A girl should be able to walk down the street with a mini skirt and halter top without being harassed. But guess what.. her wearing skimpy clothes only increases the chances of this happening whether it be right or not. Theory oftentimes doesn't parallel reality. However i do see your point. Welcome to the forum.
 

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ParkPopo said:
When I was looking at getting a backup gun, I came across the review in Guns and Ammo for the M&P compact. I really liked what what the authors had to say and it looked like something I wanted to look into. So I went down to my local shop (a pretty good selection of handguns) and asked about the comparison between the XD sub-compact and the M&P. He told me that he didn't even know that S&W made a compact. I explained the piece I read and he then told me that the guns featured in a magazine aren't available for six months after the article is published. So I figured I'd wait, and save some cash. Then I came across this fantastic forum (I know, I'm a suck-up) and realized that a LOT of people already had purchased their compacts. So, I called around and lo and behold, several stores had a couple in stock. I was furious.



So after I purchased my .40c, I went back to the store/range and asked if they had gotten any in yet. They told me the same thing. Not available to order yet. So I took mine out of the case and showed it to him and he had the funniest look on his face. He picked it up and handled it and mentioned that he liked the way it felt. I told him that they were widely and he said "well, we'll have to look into it". Whatever. I certainly learned to really do your research and talk to as many people as you can before buying something new.



Yeah, I know, a long story to say the same thing as everyone else . . .. :oops:


Actually when you see them in the print mags they are normaly on the shelf for about 6 months by them. LOL Yes I know the feeling of the ignorant gun store sales guy. The M&P 45 was on the California DOJ ok list for about 3 months before I could get a gun store clerk to stop using that as an excuse.
 

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i NEVER use sales people. i do my own research and buy what i find has the best reviews online. and from word of mouth of people I trust

8)
 

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Re: oh, i thought this tread was about something else

nikon777 said:
Well as an African American myself, I feel the same way. I hate those thug/gangsta' wanna be types. I have a handful in my apartment building. Unfortunately most of the time they're black.


It is an unfortunate byproduct of a decline in morals in our society




I was born in Puerto Rico, and I'm ashamed of the behavior I see when I go back to the Island to visit, to the extent that my visits are now less and less.



Y
 

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cruze5 said:
i NEVER use sales people. i do my own research and buy what i find has the best reviews online. and from word of mouth of people I trust

8)


I've always tried to stay away from Gun Store Commandos, they're a bunch of Ignorant Idiots full of false information.



Do your own research and make up your own mind.



Y
 

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When I bought my M&P, salesperson try like hell to sell me XD.

While XD is fine firearm, I did research, HW, and i KNEW i did not want XD.



Which gun is better is up to each and every individuals. Sales person should not force their opinion (usually misguided at that) unless specifically asked to.

My hand does not fit to XD's frame. My dicision to go with M &P was nothing to do with which manufacture made what gun.



After spending some time online researching prospective firearm, you will be shocked to findout how much those so called "sales person" really knows about product they are selling.



Salesman that was pushing XD to me - his reason for n ot recommending M&P was based on that S&W is traditionaly a wheel gun maker(That this is true), and since M&P semi auto is their first attempt to mimic hugely successfull Glock (This is not true. their first attempt was with Sigma's), its better not to get M&P .



So what made XD better in his mind? Because Springfield has been very successful with their 1911 semiauto pistol..
 
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