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Um, are you actually advocating violation of CCW laws?
Please re-read the OP. This thread is not about CCW it's about open carry on/in private property therefore, no. NC has no law against open carry but some jurisdiction have restrictions on "display of firearms" and no signage requirements so it would be prudent to keep up with local laws. A firearm sitting on an otherwise empty seat in a private vehicle is not concealed carry in N.C.



Do you carry your tactical Mossberg into the local Wally World just because you have a right to bear arms?
To answer your scenario specifically:



Since that's not illegal where I live, sure, especially if the other option is to leave them in an open air jeep. I guess it could also be mentioned that both my Mossbergs are always in cases when they leave the house just as my M&P40 is always in a holster, CCW or otherwise. Also, the Wally World in one local town has asked that open carry not be practiced on their property in response to the actions of two irresponsible kids who carry guns openly without cases or holsters (also not illegal), so I understandably comply in that circumstance.



I hope that clarifies my position.





KRW.



P.S. EMTCOP, such condescending posts. "If, as you state, you're really" a cop you might want to make friends with enidpd804 who seems to have a grasp of his duty to the citizens he serves.



P.P.S. Quite a few of the posts in this thread sound like campaign slogans for the Brady Campaign. Of course your opinions are welcome here but please realize this is a handgun related forum there may be anti-gun-control opinions. If you're not familiar with gun-control laws, take some time to look them up. At least do a rudimentary Google search before guessing at the facts.
 

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Take your pistol with a loaded mag inserted and open the slide.



Lay it down on the seat so that it can be grabbed instantly but so that the round showing through the ejection port is not immediately visible.



All you need to do is thumb the slide stop as you pick it up, and now you've got a loaded firearm in your hand.



I can easily see why even an open gun would make a cop walking up to the car nervous.


Dude, you are acop...these are LAWS in many States...You're arguemment is not with me...Maybe you should contact the States ans let them know how you feel?



Me, I'm not a cop..but I have to assume that the State creates these laws because they feel that they are in everyones best interest?
 

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I simply am stating why these LAWS exist..This is how many States WANT you to carry your unloaded guns!



I don't know why anyone would "freak-out" with an open gun??



I explained in detail, WHY someone would have a gun on the seat next to them...read my post!


I think any other cop on this site would be happy to explain why a cop would....well....not "freak out", but respond as we are trained to when we find someone that is armed. I also think it has been explained to you, not just by me, why carrying a gun on the seat beside you is a bad idea. Feel free to go back through all the posts if you don't remember.
 

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A majority of states, including Wisconsin and rurally in California and Illinois, DO recognize the right to carry a firearm (only AR, FL, NY, OK, SC, TX and D.C. have banned open carry, 13 states require permits) and in NC there are no laws against it and no laws requiring a permit therefore it is NOT unlawful. To refresh your memory, the OP is NOT about CCW.



I have not and never will advocate that another member of these forums commit any illegal acts.





Please re-read the OP. This thread is not about CCW it's about open carry on/in private property therefore, no. NC has no law against open carry but some jurisdiction have restrictions on "display of firearms" and no signage requirements so it would be prudent to keep up with local laws. A firearm sitting on an otherwise empty seat in a private vehicle is not concealed carry in N.C.





To answer your scenario specifically:



Since that's not illegal where I live, sure, especially if the other option is to leave them in an open air jeep. I guess it could also be mentioned that both my Mossbergs are always in cases when they leave the house just as my M&P40 is always in a holster, CCW or otherwise. Also, the Wally World in one local town has asked that open carry not be practiced on their property in response to the actions of two irresponsible kids who carry guns openly without cases or holsters (also not illegal), so I understandably comply in that circumstance.



I hope that clarifies my position.





KRW.



P.S. EMTCOP, such condescending posts. "If, as you state, you're really" a cop you might want to make friends with enidpd804 who seems to have a grasp of his duty to the citizens he serves.



P.P.S. Quite a few of the posts in this thread sound like campaign slogans for the Brady Campaign. Of course your opinions are welcome here but please realize this is a handgun related forum there may be anti-gun-control opinions. If you're not familiar with gun-control laws, take some time to look them up. At least do a rudimentary Google search before guessing at the facts.


If you find my posts condescending then perhaps you should read them again with an open mind, and don't take it personally. I don't feel the need to prove my employment and I have a very solid grasp of my duty to the citizens I serve. I don't think anyone who has read my posts would ever think I am in any way associated or in line with the goals of The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence. I do, however, try to give a cop's insight into why some scenarios or situations, like carrying a gun on a front seat, are a bad idea. I further think that enidpd804 does not need a "friend recruiter".....if he wears a police badge we are already brothers.
 

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I think I can clear one thing up here..



First every State has its own laws and I didn't read the link yet to NC laws, but...



The whole exposed gun thing is (in my State)..



The exposed gun is for UNLOADED guns with the action open! Also, the gun should be not be within reach of the driver. The point of this is obvious..they want to see the and and be able to tell that it is unloaded...this pertains to people w/o a license to carry (loaded)..The gun can also be carried concealed unloaded, but again not within reach of the driver..It is better to see a gun and know its unloaded (visual check), than to find a gun and not know initially if its loaded or not!





Once the gun becomes loaded, you need a permit and carry it however and whereever you want!


I get what you are saying, now please try to understand what I am saying. When I pull a vehicle over I am always dealing with an "unknown threat" until I know that no threat exists. If I walk up to a vehicle and see a weapon, action open or not, I am going to

separate the driver from the vehicle, perhaps at gunpoint, until things are "sorted out". Police Officers only have seconds to determine

the correct way to react to a potentially dangerous situation, and any police officer who says that a firearm seen just sitting on a seat

beside a driver is not a potentially dangerous situation needs to get some more officer safety training.



Notice I did not say anyone armed. I read enidpd's post in this thread, and I have posted many times on this forum that if I know that someone I have contact with is legally armed, we generally aren't going to have a problem. Most of the time I have contact with armed people is on a traffic stop, and most of the time I am handed a permit along with a driver's license. I have never encountered a permit holder that has his / her weapon just sitting on the passenger seat. I don't think I need to rehash why it is a bad idea, legal or not. That has been addressed by myself and others on this thread.



Further, the OP is not about open carry in/ on private property. I did see that the poster mentioned shooting on private property, but the post smacked of transporting it on a public road to private property.
 

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I think any other cop on this site would be happy to explain why a cop would....well....not "freak out", but respond as we are trained to when we find someone that is armed. I also think it has been explained to you, not just by me, why carrying a gun on the seat beside you is a bad idea. Feel free to go back through all the posts if you don't remember.


Well in States where it is not only permissable but ENCOURaGED under the LAW to transport an UNLOADED gun in plain view with the action open, Officers don't "freak-out", as it is NOT considered a bad idea to comply with the LAW!!



Maybe where patrol you prefer people to do as YOU think is safe rather than obey the law?



Remember Officer, it is your job to enforce the laws of you State/city!
 

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Transporting
your gun un-loaded, in a secured case, in the trunk should

keep you out of trouble in just about any state you live in.



Zeke
 

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Since it would be argumentative and time consuming to reply to the entirety of these recent posts I will only respond to misinformation as it pertains to the OP.



Further, the OP is not about open carry in/ on private property.
Many (probably most, possibly all) states, including N.C., consider a private vehicle (including "for hire" in most situations) to be private property and we're trying to discuss law abiding open carry inside a private vehicle on public roads in N.C., are we not? I'm easily bored these days and respectfully decline researching and listing all those states (as I did in my previous post) but these laws are readily available to anyone, especially LEOs, if they are willing to take the time to look them up. In fact OpenCarry has some useful information presented in a user friendly format for anyone who desires a general understanding of their open carry rights and restrictions.



Although I realize this post could (and probably will) be taken as challenging authority, I've resigned myself to presenting relevant facts. Please, let's keep our weapons holstered for everyone's safety.
 

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Well in States where it is not only permissable but ENCOURaGED under the LAW to transport an UNLOADED gun in plain view with the action open, Officers don't "freak-out", as it is NOT considered a bad idea to comply with the LAW!!


If your statute states that "unloaded firearms MAY be transported........", it is designation of a lawful practice.

You seem to confuse a statute recognizing a practice as lawful as a directive making it a recommended practice. There have been several posts that indicate various reasons why this particular lawful practice is NOT recommended. There are a quite a few practices that may be lawful, but not a real good idea. This is one. In fact, the link to the NC Attorney Generals website makes that crystal clear.
 

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As many of the above posts really say "Remember, what is legal may not be necessarily wise".
 

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If your statute states that "unloaded firearms MAY be transported........", it is designation of a lawful practice.

You seem to confuse a statute recognizing a practice as lawful as a directive making it a recommended practice. There have been several posts that indicate various reasons why this particular lawful practice is NOT recommended. There are a quite a few practices that may be lawful, but not a real good idea. This is one. In fact, the link to the NC Attorney Generals website makes that crystal clear.


In my State you cannot carry a loaded firearm IN A VEHICLE w/o a permit...The States open carry law does not pertain to loaded firearms in a vehicle.

You can NOT conceal a firearm (loaded or unloaded) if it is within your reach (in a vehicle)...therefore you MUST have you gun out in the open..not in a case IF you have it within your reach in a car/truck..



As I had said...yes if you CAN put the gun in the back its better and you can pt it in a case if out of your reach...HOWEVER, IF you are in a p/u truck and the gun will be within your reach, you have no choice but to have the gun exposed at all times!!



here is a link to the law



http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/MESL.pdf





BTW, I'm not confused about anything!
 

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Well in States where it is not only permissable but ENCOURaGED under the LAW to transport an UNLOADED gun in plain view with the action open, Officers don't "freak-out", as it is NOT considered a bad idea to comply with the LAW!!



Maybe where patrol you prefer people to do as YOU think is safe rather than obey the law?



Remember Officer, it is your job to enforce the laws of you State/city!




Please refer me to state statue, official government website, etc., where it is encouraged.



Thanks for reminding me of what my job is....( if only I had a nickel for every time!!!!!)





wrmoore hit the nail on the head....legal and recommended are often two different animals...even according to the NC Attorney General. I had initially tried to open eyes to why this is not a good practice, but it was not taken as such. Therefore, I digress......
 

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Please refer me to state statue, official government website, etc., where it is encouraged.



Thanks for reminding me of what my job is....( if only I had a nickel for every time!!!!!)





wrmoore hit the nail on the head....legal and recommended are often two different animals...even according to the NC Attorney General. I had initially tried to open eyes to why this is not a good practice, but it was not taken as such. Therefore, I digress......


read post #32 for the link to the law.



AGAIN, if you are in a small car (2 seater ) or p/u truck and have no backseat...you have no choice but to have the gun exposed as it will be within your reach!

The law clearly states...if the gun will be within reach( this includes glove compartment) it cannot be concealed w/o a permit!



The "encouragement" in the above situation is...either comply or you are in violation...or you are encouraged to obtain a permit!
 

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Back to the OPs dilemma.



These posts might show that it all depends on the officer stopping you. Some hot head might pull his gun on you, a law abiding citizen, and drag you out of your car. Another might respect the rights of a law abiding citizen. In North Idaho where I live the cops don't have a choice, they are required to treat the citizens they serve with respect, or pack their belongings.
 

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Back to the OPs dilemma.



These posts might show that it all depends on the officer stopping you. Some hot head might pull his gun on you, a law abiding citizen, and drag you out of your car. Another might respect the rights of a law abiding citizen. In North Idaho where I live the cops don't have a choice, they are required to treat the citizens they serve with respect, or pack their belongings.


You obviously are not a cop. I am done with Fomocofan, so I will address this post, since it just might be insinuating that I am a hot head. I have said this a million times here.....I STRONGLY support a citizen's

right to legally carry a firearm. I have said this before, even on this thread....A legally armed citizen is not going to have a problem with me. I was a CCW carrier before I was a cop. There is a vast difference between me pulling someone over and being handed a CCW license with a DL, or even just being advised

"Hey Officer, I am carrying a weapon that I have a permit for."



The thing you don't understand ( and probably won't ) is that when I walk up to a vehicle I don't know who

I am pulling over. It could be the nicest guy in the world, or it could be someone who has just robbed a liquor store, committed a rape, murder, etc. It is HIGHLY unusual for me to pull over someone who has an

exposed weapon on the seat beside them. People with the proper training just generally don't do it, because they know it can cause them problems, from a tactical standpoint if nothing else. I haven't pulled over many cars in my 10 years ( perhaps only 15k to 20k ) in large metropolitan departments with high crime levels ( Jacksonville, FL and Memphis, TN ). I don't work in Mayberry. If you don't believe it, do a check of cities with the highest violent crime levels, if Memphis is not in the top 20, I will send you a crisp $100 bill.



You can say that I might draw a weapon on you, a law abiding citizen, and remove you from your car, and I might if I see an exposed weapon within your reach. The part you are missing is that I DON"T KNOW that you are a law abiding citizen when I pull someone over....that's the key. If it turns out you are a law abiding citizen then things will get straightened out, and if you are not, well, that will get taken care of also. Whether it is legal or not to openly carry a firearm with the action open, it's not a good idea. Most of the posts on this thread point this out, with reasons why. Here is another option, why not put it in a box or pistol rug on the front seat ( IF you have to have it there )? I can guarantee you that an officer will be much

more comfortable with this situation than seeing a pistol, action open or not, just sitting on the front seat.

Cops get killed in seconds, not minutes. Another poster explained how quickly an action open pistol can be a closed action loaded pistol. I may not be able to see that the mag or cylinder is empty.



Psssst....Cops in northern Idaho are human too....with much the same training as any other cop...I doubt they have a crystal ball that tells them who are the good guys and who are the bad. Think about it, or better yet, pose them the question...If you see a gun, just openly carried on the front seat, on a traffic stop or a complaint from another motorist of a person with a gun on the seat....how do you react? You don't have to tell me the results. IF the officer is tactically aware and follows good officer safety practices, I already know the answer.



Oh yeah, one other thing, we are required to treat our citizens with respect, or we are dealt with accordingly.

Just one more thing that is the same here....and there.
 

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You obviously are not a cop. I am done with Fomocofan, so I will address this post, since it just might be insinuating that I am a hot head.
Sorry buddy. As much as you want them to be, these forums are not just about you.



If you feel the need to belittle me or Fomocofan again please do so as a PM.
 

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[quote from EMTCOP

Here is another option, why not put it in a box or pistol rug on the front seat ( IF you have to have it there )?

[/quote]



What do I do in my State where I cannot conceal a firearm in a vehicle w/o a permit on the front seat???



In my State you HAVE to have it exposed! Boy, those Maine law makers are REALLY unsafe....
 

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[

What do I do in my State where I cannot conceal a firearm in a vehicle w/o a permit on the front seat???



In my State you HAVE to have it exposed! Boy, those Maine law makers are REALLY unsafe....


OK, your state requires that any pistol carried in a motor vehicle be carried unloaded and be out of the control of the driver or other person. The section I read-which may not be identical to the actual statute- simply recognizes open carry on the seat as lawful.



Generally, if it requires at least 2 actions to put the weapon into use it is not considered concealed within the meaning of this law. I expect, that if your weapon is unloaded and locked in a hard case and stored in the trunk or behind the seat of a pickup on the passenger side, that it is not considered concealed within your immediate control. Check with your local District Attorney to verify this, I'm not a lawyer and I don't give legal advice. Get the name of the individual who gives you the advice, a letter would be real nice.



Note: pickup trucks are kinda left out in the cold with these "within control" concepts, there generally being no place within the cab that some weasel may not consider "within control". In many sensible areas, the steps outlined above are generally considered to be a good faith effort to comply with the law. This is why I suggest you contact your local DA/CA.



Now, if your intent is to have a weapon available in the passenger compartment, get the permit!
 

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OK, your state requires the seat as lawful. that any pistol carried in a motor vehicle be carried unloaded and be out of the control of the driver or other person. The section I read-which may not be identical to the actual statute- simply recognizes open carry on



Generally, if it requires at least 2 actions to put the weapon into use it is not considered concealed within the meaning of this law. I expect, that if your weapon is unloaded and locked in a hard case and stored in the trunk or behind the seat of a pickup on the passenger side, that it is not considered concealed within your immediate control. Check with your local District Attorney to verify this, I'm not a lawyer and I don't give legal advice. Get the name of the individual who gives you the advice, a letter would be real nice.



Note: pickup trucks are kinda left out in the cold with these "within control" concepts, there generally being no place within the cab that some weasel may not consider "within control". In many sensible areas, the steps outlined above are generally considered to be a good faith effort to comply with the law. This is why I suggest you contact your local DA/CA.



Now, if your intent is to have a weapon available in the passenger compartment, get the permit!


You could not be more wrong here!



The law does not say "that any pistol carried in a motor vehicle be carried unloaded and be out of the control of the driver" as you say!



It says IF the gun is "under the persons control" it CANNOT be concealed (this includes the glove compartment) w/o a permit!



It IS perfectly legal to have a gun exposed (unloaded) within the drivers reach w/o a permit! "It is not unlawful to carry a firearm openly".



Maine is an OPEN CARRY STATE...which means it has to be EXPOSED to be OPEN...not locked ina case or any other possible scenario..open means OPEN!



It is perfectly acceptable put have a gun (unloaded) concealed or in a case if it is not within reach of the driver w/o a permit!



I was simply saying that in some cases it is NOT possible to put your gun outside of the drivers control...which means no concealment in that case!
 
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