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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My friend is a really good shooter, but she has a major problem: Her husband keeps buying stuff for her! So far he has bought two guns, one of which she is shooting and the other one she refuses to touch as the only way to get him to STOP. The ammo he bought was totally wrong for the guns she has.

So here we are: The "husband" gun she is using regularly is the M&P 9mm EZ It functions very well but that upside down grip safety is driving her nuts. She has no problem with a manual thumb safety. She wants to buy a new 9mm mid size (think Glock 19 size) gun for herself. It can't be a Taurus because that is the other one hubby brought home for her.

The two indoor ranges near us that rent guns have nothing she can try that she hasn't already tried via friends, etc. Since she has the EZ and also an M&P .22 compact, the 9mm compact would be keeping it in the same "family." Hang in there - I'm getting to the point.

Does anyone here have an M&P 9mm compact? I'm sure it would fit her hands, but I need to know:
1. Trigger pull weight - if you don't have a gauge, compare it to the below listed guns.
2. Recoil compared to the 9mm EZ or compared to a SIG P365 or to a Glock 19 or to a SIG P238.

All assistance will be greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The m&p EZ9 is a great gun! I've got a 9c, and I think the EZ9 is the way to go.
In my OP I stated that she has the EZ 9 and HATES that upside down grip safety. It is a great trainer for high and tight grip, but if you relax your grip just a wee bit while doing stress related drills the guns just stops! That is why she is looking for a "regular" gun. She is used to flicking off the regular manual thumb safety as she draws but that grip safety just does not work for the kind of drills we practice.

IF you could give me stats as to the difference in trigger pull weight and how hard it is to rack the slide between the EZ and the 9c it would be really helpful.

Example: I have both the EZ 380 and P238. Racking the slide takes identical strength and although the trigger pull on the P238 measure 2# heavier, it is so smooth that they feel the same. This is the information I need when comparing the EZ9 to the M&P 9c.
 

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I have a Gen 1 Compact 9. Don't know how big your friend's hands are, the double stack mag makes for a thicker grip than the EZ. Would that be an issue? Also, I can guarantee racking the slide on a 9c will be tougher than the EZ. I've never fired one, but having handled an EZ, I can tell you it's much easier than my 9c or Gen 1 Shield. I've heard the Gen 2's are improved, so I would guess the trigger pull weight would be close to the EZ., better than my Gen 1's. Good luck.
 
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I bought a M&P9 2.0 Compact for my wife, and it's very manageable.

It's not small, but I don't feel that it's too big for someone with small to medium hands.

It has enough mass that it recoils mildly.

The older 2.0 versions, with the hinged trigger, are on sale now as there is a new version with a different trigger that's out. I have the hinged trigger on both my .45 and 9mm, and it's not an issue for me.

She should be able to handle one at a gun store to see how it fits her.
 

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My friend is a really good shooter, but she has a major problem: Her husband keeps buying stuff for her! So far he has bought two guns, one of which she is shooting and the other one she refuses to touch as the only way to get him to STOP. The ammo he bought was totally wrong for the guns she has.

So here we are: The "husband" gun she is using regularly is the M&P 9mm EZ It functions very well but that upside down grip safety is driving her nuts. She has no problem with a manual thumb safety. She wants to buy a new 9mm mid size (think Glock 19 size) gun for herself. It can't be a Taurus because that is the other one hubby brought home for her.

The two indoor ranges near us that rent guns have nothing she can try that she hasn't already tried via friends, etc. Since she has the EZ and also an M&P .22 compact, the 9mm compact would be keeping it in the same "family." Hang in there - I'm getting to the point.

Does anyone here have an M&P 9mm compact? I'm sure it would fit her hands, but I need to know:
1. Trigger pull weight - if you don't have a gauge, compare it to the below listed guns.
2. Recoil compared to the 9mm EZ or compared to a SIG P365 or to a Glock 19 or to a SIG P238.

All assistance will be greatly appreciated.
I can't answer all of your questions but have some info that might help.

I have the 9EZ and G19 (Gen 2), and have fired the P365XL. I have carried the G19 and 9EZ daily at one point in time, the 9EZ is my current EDC for over 6 months. I have a red dot on the 9EZ as well.

IMHO, I found the 9EZ has less recoil than both the G19 and P365XL. The 9EZ is also by far easier to rack, though I do not own a gauge to measure it. Without question easier.

I have found that the P365XL was the least comfortable to shoot of the three, the circumference of the grip is smaller I believe (I did not measure it). It just felt different and sharper in recoil. Though admittedly I only shot two magazines worth through it.

The G19 is a great pistol, and I have considered potentially buying a Gen5 MOS (either 19, 43x, or something) but in MA they are expensive and I'm not ready to spend any money yet.

FWIW, I agree the husband should not be buying the wife a gun. My wife isn't licensed but likes shooting my 380EZ at the range, she hasn't tried the 9EZ yet. If she were to get licensed I would encourage her to try out as many pistols as possible before buying one (or use my 380EZ etc).

Hope that helped, best wishes on your pistol hunt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@jkv45 @Cphobes

THANKS to both of you for the comparisons. Yes, they are both helpful. We are going to make the rounds of the LGS places for her to get the feel of grips, how hard to rack, etc. There is one large store in Knoxville but that's an hour and a half drive one way so we are going to try the local stores first, for fit and feel. Recoil will be a factor, but if she (L) is not comfortable with the grip and finds slides hard to rack that is the first important step to eliminating probably most candidates.

My other shooting buddy (R) did her own research/rental gun projects, both when she first began to shoot and also more recently. She wound up with the P365 9mm because that was the best of what was available in 9mm to rent. She does not shoot it well due to the recoil of the tiny gun. She now has a P365 .380 and likes it a lot. I actually bought it and it did not work for me - but she liked it and bought it from me. She shoots her P238 and the P365 .380 eequally well, but she has much smaller hands than this "current shooter friend" does.

Actually (L) shot (R's) P365 9mm last time we were at the range and did very well with it. It is just too small for her hands and she felt that the tiny crack between the bottom of the grip and the base pad of the magazine pinched her hand. So that is one more factor in the mix.

In our "we three" group I am the one with all the years of experience and several multi day SD classes in past years. The other two are highly motivated and are doing super great as I pass along my knowledge. All 3 of us have M&P .22 compacts for more move and shoot plinking fun after we do the serious SD drills with our "real guns."
 
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My wife is 63. She started with my XDM 3.8 9MM and liked it a lot (I did, too, but she like it more). It was her gun and she did reasonably well with it till she shot a CZ75 Compact 9MM and then she wanted it (It was also my gun first). She liked and carried the CZ75 Compact for a couple years till she began to complain it was just too heavy to carry for hours at a time. I got her an M&P Shield 9MM PC (Performance Center) that has those extra features you don't really notice once you're used to them. She loves it. Shoots it well, isn't bothered by the carry weight/feel of it and it is very accurate with 115 grain hollow points I also carry in my CZ 9MM pistols.

I know, no comparison with Glocks (I own one I bought years ago and I stopped carrying/shooting it when I got my first XDM). Never found a reason to buy another one.

The Glock won't have a safety other than the one in the trigger and your friends finger/mind working together.

The M&P Shield can have an additional thumb safety but can also be harder to operate than the compact and full sized M&P pistol safeties. The models without the thumb safety have a trigger safety similar to Glocks in how it keeps the pistol from firing unless you pull the trigger.

There are some really good sales going on right now for M&P Compact 9MM pistols. Down in the mid $300 range at some on line vendors (would have to be purchased with a credit card on line and shipped to a local FFL to do the paperwork/transfer to the buyer.)

In my M&P experience the only ones I've shot that meet my standards are the small Shields in 9MM. I keep thinking about one of the newer Shield Plus 9MM pistols but haven't convinced myself to buy/try one yet. The two Shield 9MM pistols we have make the full sized M&Ps look like cheap knock together pistols with lousy barrels and will never shoot worth beans. Does the Shield recoil more than the bigger/heavier full sized 9MM pistols? Yeah, but the groups (compared to the bigger/heavier full sized 9s) are amazing. We've put the small lasers on both the Shields. The (lasermax I believe) that come on when you grip the frame in your hand. Some day they may get red dots, maybe not. I carried my Shield the other day to a place I would not want to carry a bigger pistol and I can't even tell it's there unless I intentionally bump my elbow. arm where it's at (IWB).

Most pistols come with 2 magazines. Not enough for me so I feel the need to buy more. Price and availability of magazines is a factor.

Carry holsters. Just about everybody makes concealed carry holsters (or open carry holsters) for M&P and Glock pistols.

One thing to say, here, is that no matter what you, or anyone else buys first, most of the time there will be a second, third, or maybe fourth gun as you get more used to what you buy and decide it's really not what you thought it was going to be. Like kayaks. You buy a neat one, you try it out, it's okay for awhile and then you get to thinking "that one" is better for you than the one you bought first.

Different people like different sights, different grips (even the plastic framed pistol grips can be modified with grip sleeves, or through modification of the plastic shape/surface), different holsters, different ammo (pistols also can show preferences for better operation/accuracy from one brand/bullet type to another), etc.

Good luck in the search.
 

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ShooterGranny, you can take 3 brand new S&W's and weigh the trigger pull on each with a 10 pull average and I'd bet they will be all different.

S&W stock triggers are not what they company is known for, it is however why so many companies make after market kits though.

I've fired a Gen 2 compact but don't own one, it's recoil would be similar to a g19 and slightly less jumpy than a 365 (I have not used the other guns mentioned).

The trigger in the one my uncle has wasn't horrible but I did recommend he takes it to a local shop here that replaces the sear, polish's the sear spring plunger and if needed replace the trigger bar spring with a different weight, but only one of mine required the spring be changed.

I took a shield .45 in that would not even register on the lyman scale which goes to 12#. They replaced the trigger bar spring with a different color/weight, the sear and polished the plunger so it's now smooth and 5#.
I prefer 4.5 to 5 pounds weight.

His compact was gritty was the reason I said he should get it fixed, the weight wasn't too bad, I'd guess under 6#.

My 365 and G19 have modified triggers so I can't give a comparison on that weight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@M1A4ME Thanks for one more recommendation for a Springer. I have it on my list of guns for her to look at and feel, etc.

Both of my shooting buddies are 69 going on 70. Both are in good physical health with good hand/arm strength. Both have been shooting close to 2 years. "We three" try to shoot together once a week, focusing on serious SD drills, but some just plain .22lr plinking fun also - as I stated in an earlier post on this thread.

I had to chuckle at the "2nd, 3rd and 4th gun" statement. My other shooting buddy started with one .22lr gun. Then, being ready for a higher caliber and after trying a few others, she shot my P238 and absolutely HAD to have one. Then she thought she needed a 9mm so got a Glock 19 Gen 5 but her hands are too small even with the smallest backstrap. After trying a few rental guns, she wound up buying a P365 9mm - third gun. She has problems with the recoil on that one - mostly mental rather than physical. Then I bought a P365 in .380 and it did not work for me at all so she bought it from me and loves it. She is now up to 4 guns. This third friend would also buy another 9mm if she found one with less recoil than the P365. Her twin sister doesn't really understand why she needs more than the one .22 compact plinker and one "real gun" but you have to be a shooter to understand.

When my right thumb and wrist became so injured (unrepairable) I had to learn to shoot left handed, give up all of my 9mm's and buy new .380 and .22lr guns. (All new holsters too for left hand shooting.) Poor me........It was an interesting ride, with a few purchased that did not work at all, to get to where I am now. I have a good selection now and really do not need another gun. Right now. LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ShooterGranny, you can take 3 brand new S&W's and weigh the trigger pull on each with a 10 pull average and I'd bet they will be all different.

I've fired a Gen 2 compact but don't own one, it's recoil would be similar to a g19 and slightly less jumpy than a 365 (I have not used the other guns mentioned).
OH YES! Even my 3 SIG P238's all register differently on my trigger gauge. That has a little something to do with how many times they have been fired. Well, doh.....

The only Glocks I had that had heavy trigger pulls were the early release G42's. When I got the first one I didn't even notice the heavier trigger pull, but the second one, bought used, was a bear and I sent it in to Glock to be fixed. All had that "gritty Glock trigger" feel but I didn't know that until after I bought my first SIG. Comparing striker fired to 1911 style SA hammer fired is not fair though, is it?
 

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My other shooting buddy (R) did her own research/rental gun projects, both when she first began to shoot and also more recently. She wound up with the P365 9mm because that was the best of what was available in 9mm to rent. She does not shoot it well due to the recoil of the tiny gun. She now has a P365 .380 and likes it a lot. I actually bought it and it did not work for me - but she liked it and bought it from me. She shoots her P238 and the P365 .380 eequally well, but she has much smaller hands than this "current shooter friend" does.
I believe 380 is a legitimate defensive round, many will disagree. Good defensive ammo is critical as well for both 9 and 380.

The Glock 42 is in 380 and has only 6+1 capacity, I'm hoping they make a new version with the MOS and double stack mag to at least 8 or 10 +1 rounds. If they did I'd likely buy it flat out. I like both S&W and Glock so I hope I don't sound too much like a Glock fan boy.

My first pistol was the 380EZ and it's always fun to shoot, easy to carry IWB and I carried it for several months.

At the end of the day it comes down to finding a gun that's comfortable for the shooter and training, lots of training with that pistol.
 

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One thing the M&P might have going for it compared to some other brands is you can get an M&P .22 to practice with if you don't want to shoot the M&P 9MM Compact. I bought one years ago before I moved on to CZs.

It has the same feel/operation as the full sized M&P but field strips differently for cleaning. But the trigger, safeties, magazine release, slide release are the same. Consistency is a good thing for training. You want to be sure the things you do in training are the same things you'd do if you had to use that gun for self defense.

I don't know of you can get a .22 XD or Glock. You can get .22 conversion kits for some CZ models. Some of those kits are crazy expensive and some aren't too bad, depends on the model.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
@M1A4ME All of us already have M&P .22 compacts. They are GREAT guns! They are mostly non ammo picky, but my one friend's gun doesn't like Armscor where my 2 will shoot it all day and night. We don't use junk bulk/bucket ammo.

(When I finish the full case of Armscor I got before the panic I'll probably not buy it anymore, but will stick to CCI mini mags, Aguila Super Extra and Eley. It shoots fine for range practice, but there are very rare duds. Since I only paid 4 cents per round for that Armscor HP, I'm not fussed.)

I would not recommend the older full size M&P .22 since it is not made by S&W, whereas the compact always has been made by Smith in the US. However I see that S&W doesn't even show the full size in their on line catalog anymore. Good for them!

I think she should look at the M&P 9mm compact for consistency. She is going to look at a good size list of guns if we can find them, and then make a decision. It might take a couple of weeks. She's not in a hurry.

The thing I MOST NOTICE about the M&P 9mm compact is the lack of threads about it. Occasionally somone will mention in passing that they also have an M&P 9mm compact and love it. Since more people post grievances than post "hooray" threads, this indicates to me that it is a mostly trouble free gun. We will watch for "which trigger version" is on the one she gets IF she decides to get one. It seems that the latest smooth trigger, which replaced the Glock-like one, is the best to look for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The m&p EZ9 is a great gun! I've got a 9c, and I think the EZ9 is the way to go.
Oh yes, it's a great gun if all you do is stand in one place to shoot! But try doing serious moving and shooting as a woman and see what happens. Tell me how many people of either sex you see shooting those EZ's in IDPA competitons - I bet it is NONE, zero, zip, nada.
 

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I have an M&P 2.0 compact 4", full size 4.25", and G19 Gen 5. My wife had a G48 and now has a 9mm EZ. She has quite a tremor that is an issue, but not small hands.
Racking - she says the EZ is much easier. I really don't see a lot of difference, grandson says he doesn't either. Charging handle devices are available for nearly all EXCEPT the EZ. The internal hammer moves in the area they go with if they use the endcap, and the dovetail devices I found will not fit that slide.
Grip - The EZ takes some consciousness of hand position in getting used to the grip safety. My wife likes any of mine better in that aspect. As to grip size it might be nice to have the replaceable back straps on M&P or Gen 4-5 Glocks
Recoil - I think the EZ is a little snappier, but not really worse. The grip promotes a high grip that may help.
Magazine - no comparison in ease of loading, EZ hands down.
Trigger - a little different feel. Not lighter, better, worse, just different. Maybe because it is an internal hammer instead of striker?
SHOOTING - the main event - My wife likes shooting any of mine better once I rack them. Unfortunately, she is not comfortable carrying with a round chambered without the grip safety. She has a grip that does not like the grip safety. So, a paradox :unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have an M&P 2.0 compact 4", full size 4.25", and G19 Gen 5. My wife had a G48 and now has a 9mm EZ. She has quite a tremor that is an issue, but not small hands.
Racking - she says the EZ is much easier. I really don't see a lot of difference, grandson says he doesn't either. Charging handle devices are available for nearly all EXCEPT the EZ. The internal hammer moves in the area they go with if they use the endcap, and the dovetail devices I found will not fit that slide.
Grip - The EZ takes some consciousness of hand position in getting used to the grip safety. My wife likes any of mine better in that aspect. As to grip size it might be nice to have the replaceable back straps on M&P or Gen 4-5 Glocks
Recoil - I think the EZ is a little snappier, but not really worse. The grip promotes a high grip that may help.
Magazine - no comparison in ease of loading, EZ hands down.
Trigger - a little different feel. Not lighter, better, worse, just different. Maybe because it is an internal hammer instead of striker?
SHOOTING - the main event - My wife likes shooting any of mine better once I rack them. Unfortunately, she is not comfortable carrying with a round chambered without the grip safety. She has a grip that does not like the grip safety. So, a paradox :unsure:
Interesting. Each person's experience is unique, isn't it? My friend and I went "touchy feely" shopping today and she now has the list of 13 possibles down to 5 potential guns to buy. I think she will need to make a trip to the large rental range that is about 1 1/2 hours away IF they have all of her final candidates. I've had too many experiences of guns that felt good until you actually shot them. Another friend is bring a G19 Gen 5 tomorrow when we shoot, so that one will either stay on the list or be eliminated.

The grip safety is disastrous for serious moving and shooting because there is no way of knowing when your high and tight grip has relaxed a tiny bit other than the gun just stops working. It is no problem for standing in one place and shooting but that is not what we do. But that is one of the reasons why I do not trust the EZ's for carry or even for home defense. They can be a lot of fun on the range, though....sometimes.

I find it a bit odd that the M&P .22 compact is hammer fired but the 9mm compact is striker fired. Personally I prefer hammer fired guns, but I'm not looking to buy any more guns at this point.
 

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Just one guys opinion, but have you considered a 1911 in 9mm? Either comander or full size? This way you get a full size grip, a grip safety that is pressed down torward the magizine.... Its one of the softess shooting pistols out there. I know of other ladies that really enjoy the 1911 especially in 9mm. Grip stocks can be changed as well to either thinner panels or even some thicker panel to fit the hand a bit better. I have smaller hand for a guy and love the standard thickness panels (stocks)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Just one guys opinion, but have you considered a 1911 in 9mm? Either comander or full size? This way you get a full size grip, a grip safety that is pressed down torward the magizine.... Its one of the softess shooting pistols out there. I know of other ladies that really enjoy the 1911 especially in 9mm. Grip stocks can be changed as well to either thinner panels or even some thicker panel to fit the hand a bit better. I have smaller hand for a guy and love the standard thickness panels (stocks)
Since she is still fairly new to shooting, I want to keep her with the same style of gun with which she is familiar. It is a good suggestion, though.

Cleaning a 1911 is not hard, but it is totally different from the "plastic fantastics" and I'm not sure this is the time for that for this particular woman. My hubby has a RIA 1911 9mm full size and although it has "almost no recoil" it is much too heavy for me to shoot more than one magazine full. This friend is younger and stronger, but there is still the possibility of her arms getting tired before we finish a SD session.

If I knew someone with a commander size 1911, I would have her try one, though. She just might fall in love. We are going to try to go to one range that has some rental guns and if they have a 1911, I'll encourage her to try it out. At this point, she is not prepared to spend a ton of money renting guns.

The range with the most guns is pretty pricey, all things considered, for gun rental. Since at most rental ranges you can only shoot one, then return it and check out another one, etc. That slows things down and at $20 per hour for range fee plus having to buy their ammo (fairly standard procedure for rental guns), plus the fact that they charge an etra $5 the first time you go, it could add up. That's the one that used to be Shoot Point Blank but changed their corporate name to Range USA.

The one we are going to first has a free ladies day but not a lot of rental guns, so that is where we are going to shoot first. The only cost will be gasoline plus the range ammo and whatever they charge for rental.

It's easier if you live in a city with a few choices of rental ranges. It is not so easy when you live semi rural and have to drive an hour or more one way to get to the closest ones.
 
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