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Discussion Starter #1
I am on my third return to S&W for mag drops and slide locks on a .40 compact - my question to you guys is that after sending it back multiple times, do you still have the confidence in that one for daily carry?



I have left a message for a super at customer service, but I am curious if I would get any traction in having them give me a completely different firearm based upon the lack of confidence that 1) S&W can even fix this 2) I won't have a failure on this particular one at an inopportune moment.



Thoughts?



- T
 

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well, i fully stand behind you on your "right" to an absolute resolution to this...



you bought a firearm, and it's about time they quit making you send it back over and over... and if they couldnt fix it 100%, they should replace it.



but in their eyes, "should" and "we will" might be two different things.



go for it, make your demand... and keep us posted on what happens.
 

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In my opinion if you're on the third trip back they need to replace it with a new one. I can see sending it back once, twice is okay if they brain farted or something but three times means their typical "fixes" aren't enough and maybe something else, like the frame, is out of spec.
 

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Sounds like your experience with this firearm is enough to have them replace it. If they don't I

would make sure and let them know that you will pass your experience with them on to others

interested in buying their product.

.

If they replace the weapon, and you experience the same issues, find another weapon system.
 

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I've had a similar experience many years ago with a Glock 23. After it came back from its second trip with the same problem, I demanded a replacement and after some wrestling with them over it, they provided a brand new G23 which I divested myself of shortly thereafter.
 

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Honestly, it depends on the problem and how much room there is for operator error to be the culprit.



If someone keeps insisting it isn't them doing something wrong, and you can't reproduce the problem, it sucks for the company. I've been on that end of things, and it sucks when the customer insists that they aren't doing something that they HAVE to be doing to make stuff break the way it is.



It's one of the bonuses of shooting competitively. You get to know the people you shoot with, and you cna use them to verify if something is operator error. I upped the power factor on my loads, and started having slide lock problems. I let a few people I know have good form and I know some of the quirks of how they shoot, and ran them through it. The result is that 150+pf ammo, summertime heat and sweaty hands, and the fact that the M&P could use more aggressive texturing on the front strap = me tripping the slide catch on recoil. So alter my grip and put some a-grip on the fornt strap = problem solved without bothering S&W. I also had a 1911 that was giving me intermittent FTEs then it got worse. Got some people to test fire it, and was the same for all of them, so the gun got fixed rather than me worrying about my technique.





As far as getting your gun replaced, it may be of no use. For themost part, spare parts come form the assembly line parts bins. Most of S&W's issues with the M&P sound like issues with QC on third party small parts and finishing. If you sent the gun back two weeks ago, and they case of mag catches going into production guns are the same batch that was used to repair yours, nothing might be fixed if you get a gun built with the same part in exchange.
 

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I've had a similar experience many years ago with a Glock 23. After it came back from its second trip with the same problem, I demanded a replacement and after some wrestling with them over it, they provided a brand new G23 which I divested myself of shortly thereafter.


hmmm......sounds like this might be a good solution to the M&P problem after THREE trips back to S&W.......or should you have more patience with an M&P than a Glock? :wink:
 

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m4arc said:
In my opinion if you're on the third trip back they need to replace it with a new one. I can see sending it back once, twice is okay if they brain farted or something but three times means their typical "fixes" aren't enough and maybe something else, like the frame, is out of spec.
you said it :wink:
 

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Two trips is my limit. On the third I want a new pistol. One of the things that I've done on my one and only return for service is document the problem. The technician won't be able to fire more than 50-100 rounds when trying to duplicate the problem without it. Do you have a buddy with a camcorder? Be sure to cover the mic really well to prevent damage but I would tape my next range trip and send them a DVD with the pistol. In my case I had FTF issues with a Kahr and sent along pulled bullets with massive deformation from jamming into the feed ramp so that they could see for themselves. Anything that you can do to narrow and illustrate/demonstrate the problem helps both of you a lot and removes any suspicion that they may have that it's a loose nut on the end of the phone issue. For the third RMA I would ask for a replacement and if the answer is no then politely ask for a manager. If the answer is still no, well you would be shocked how well a very polite letter to a couple of officers of the corporation works.




I don't think I need to mention courtesy to you but I will anyway just to remind all readers. Courtesy goes a long way and not just with weapon RMAs. I read rants from folks on other forums about how they gave the customer service rep a piece of their mind about what crap XYZ's products are while arranging for a first RMA, and how mad they are that the pistol (or whatever) came back with the same problem. Well duh! A polite, even chummy conversation and the above mentioned proof often gets an RMA unofficially flagged as a probable legitimate gripe. The jerks often get theirs unofficially flagged for special attention. Special attention = sits on a shelf for six to ten weeks before being returned untouched with a note saying tested and no problem found.
 

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I've never had to send my 9c back, but I have had to call CS twice to have replacement parts sent to me.

The first one was immediately after I took delivery of the gun, I noticed the white paint in the front sight was off-center to the left. Now, it wasn't just the paint, it was the hole itself, it was just drilled into the sight improperly and then painted. No big deal, they sent me a new front sight, and the new one is perfect.



The second issue is very recent, in fact I just called them last week before Thanksgiving. And that issue is the tool that comes out of the backstrap. You all know about that little plastic nub, or tab, that sticks out the side of it, its used to lock the tool in when you place it in its hole. Well, that tab just... fell off. The tool stays in just fine, unless you want to shoot it. Then it sorta works its way out. So they are sending me one of those as well.



None of these issues are enough for me to discard the gun as defunct, unsafe or unreliable. Just goof-ups really. And as long as the new parts do their thing properly, I'll be happy. I love my gun. It shoots straight, is comfortable to shoot, and is comfortable to carry.
 

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The same thing is starting to happen to my "nub"
If you change out the backstraps often (like when you're first testing the sizes out to your hand on a new pistol) it'll get worn out rather quickly.
 

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Onuma said:
The same thing is starting to happen to my "nub"
If you change out the backstraps often (like when you're first testing the sizes out to your hand on a new pistol) it'll get worn out rather quickly.


That part of it is sort of a bad design. You can't make a system for people to exhange backstraps, and then not expect them to do it cuz something might fall off! lol.



They're rectifying the situation, and I have confidence in them. They said to let them know if it happens again.

And the funny thing is, I barely ever change out my backstraps. I've had the Medium one on almost the whole time I've owned the gun, only switching it out a handful of times at the range to test the other 2 out.
 

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I agree with scholling, politeness will get you very far. I find that when you start to get angry, you explain to them how much you like the MP, and are really frustrated not at the person on the fone cause thet didn't build it. That has helped me at various times
 

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tigs40cal said:
Three strikes its out I want a new one. My 0.02
For me, that all depends on the issue. If its jamming, not firing, or not operating safely... then 3 is all they get.

If its a small issue, such as the tool in the backstrap, or a misaligned front sight... they deserve a chance to make it right.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I am with Scholling on this - I have attempted to contact Kate again today, she is tough to get in touch with.



I am a reasonable person, I think they will be reasonable too - I will post results.



- T
 

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Discussion Starter #17
ongoing update

Hey Everybody -



I talked to Kate on Friday (been playing phone tag) and explained to her what was going on.



Some random thoughts:

- She indicated that even after the second visit - they only fire like 10 shots to test it

- She said I was getting another call tag to send it back, if they can replicate the problem they will replace the unit

- Out of like 10 or 12 mags - only two went through without a problem

- I shot multiple ways - I shot without the birdie finger being near the release - I also switched the release sides

- Lots of mag drops - lots of slide locks - lots of no feeding



I am certain if they run at least two of any of these mags they will replicate the problem.



I did tell her that I have lost faith in the compact platform and asked her to replace the unit with a full-size .45 version (I included the cost of range time, ammunition, the fact I have been sending this back since October 11th - hopefully that may quantify the cost difference).



I haven't gotten the call tag yet, hopefully I will get that Monday, I would like to get this resolved before Christmas




Stay tuned,



- T[/code]
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Got the shipping label in the mail Monday - UPS picked up Monday afternoon (that was another experience - when I handed the box to the lady and told her there was a firearm in there, she froze like a deer in the headlights).



S&W should have it today or tomorrow.



- T
 

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I'm like some of the others and 3 strikes.

Seems like you having major issues like FTF, jamming, ect.





So ya...If it came back again and still major issues i would be on the verge of

"dropping" a hammer/maul on the slide two or threes times.

and tell them that is how you got it back.



(That was easy for me to say but morally...... i'm not sure if i could pull that off.

BUT i'm not in your situation)

And the only reason i would "accidentally" damage it beyond use

would be not only so the have to replace it, but couldn't resell it.



That does bring a question



Is there a point when they get tired of working on it and admit a lemon was produced

and slipped through the quality checks and found it's way into a customers hands???
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The answer to that may be three times - she brought up replacing it before I did.



I haven't heard from her yet - I will call her today and see whats up.



- T
 
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