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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
no worries fellas, This happened in Ormond/Daytona Beach, Florida. Every state differs in their CC laws, and the first thing my father taught me when i told him I was getting a gun and my CCW was that above all, you HAVE to know your laws governing your actions as a gun owner and carrier b/c in the end it will save your ass.
 

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I'm extremely happy to hear your ok and you did not have to take it any further! The local news here did a piece about legal gun carrying has tripled in the last year due to crime rising.



You might want to read up, JUST in case, because I have had cops tell me they would have done the same thing I have done.. but Florida can be tricky with its laws sometimes.



Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?



A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:



* Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;

* Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.



Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.



Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.



Q. What if someone uses threatening language to me so that I am afraid for my life or safety?



A. Verbal threats are not enough to justify the use of deadly force. There must be an overt act by the person which indicates that he immediately intends to carry out the threat. The person threatened must reasonably believe that he will be killed or suffer serious bodily harm if he does not immediately take the life of his adversary.


and this



Q. What if I point my handgun at someone but don't use it?



A. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument. Threatening someone verbally while possessing a handgun, even licensed, will land you in jail for three years. Even if the gun is broken or you don't have bullets, you will receive the mandatory three-year sentence if convicted. The law does not allow any possibility of getting out of jail early.



Example: In a 1987 case, a woman refused to pay an automobile mechanic who she thought did a poor job repairing her car. They argued about it, and the mechanic removed the radiator hose from the car so she couldn't drive it away. She reached into her purse, pulled out an unloaded gun, and threatened to kill the mechanic if he touched her car again. The mechanic grabbed the gun and called the police.



The woman was convicted of aggravated assault with a firearm and sentenced to serve a mandatory three-year prison term. The fact that the gun was not loaded was irrelevant. Even though she was the mother of three dependent children and had no prior criminal record, the statute does not allow for parole. Her only recourse was to seek clemency from the Governor.


tough decisions I know, but I believe you did the best possible thing in your situation! Those extra seconds to see his gun come out are too crucial to second guess your action.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Yea, the main factor in me actually raising the gun was when he began to reach for something that I couldn't see as he rapidly approached my vehicle.
 

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based on your affidavit it seemed you established the defense of self defense on many points:

1. You were not at fault or did not create the situation that gave rise to road rage

2. You believed you were in danger of imminent death or great bodily harm

3. You havent violated any opportunity to retreat or avoid the danger since you were in box in situation.

after having gone through a hightened learning experience i just think you might want to bring it to the next level.



4. you haven't exhausted all other means to avoid the use of deadly force. you should know how testosterone works. telling the person what to do like "get back inside your car "or else what? won't do anything good but challenging man's machismo he will never give up without a fight specially if there is disparity of age, ability and force. one piece of magic word yu haven't surrendered yet your precious "i'm sorry" that could have heaped coals on his head, you must know how to back off and back down if necessary because you are carrying the "ace-of-the-hole".



5. you failed the 1st rule of firearm safety pointing your gun at somebody's face with no intention of killing is not self defense but impulsive gesture of holstered courage and putting yourself in a disadvantage in the eyes of the law being the agressor.
 

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Let me preface what I am going to say by saying I was a police officer in Florida for 10 years.

Two of those years were spent in a county that borders Volusia. I often had contact with

deputies from Volusia County, and while I can say that most of them were very professional

law enforcement officers, there were a couple who were.....ummmmmm....less than professional.

It sounds like you ran into one of those.



Based on the events as you explained them, it sounds like you were justified in displaying your

weapon when he made a furtive movement ( simulating reaching for a weapon ). Unfortunately

I can tell you from experience that a lot of "interpretation" goes on in law enforcement, and one

officer's, or assistant state attorney's, interpretation of the law might be different.



I had a very similar experience in 2004 ( in Florida ) that ended in a shooting after an attempted

carjacking. I was off duty in another county from the one I worked in, and usually wasn't armed

while off duty. I had attended training at the academy in this county earlier in the evening, and

happened to be armed since I had been on department time and was required to be armed when

"on the clock". Since this incident I have never been unarmed when off duty. I had "it can't

happen to me" syndrome and got a rude awakening.



I am thankful you didn't have to fire your weapon. I was "cleared" in the shooting, but it still took

a toll on me emotionally. I think it would do the same with anyone who has the type of belief

system that I do.



Avoidance of situations where you might have to use your weapon is very important, but it

sounds like you didn't have any other options.
 

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I am glad you are OK. It sounds to me like you did everything right. You did not use the weapon until he reached in a threatening manner.



One thing I would like to remind people is that "the person that speaks first, speaks the truth". This is an old axiom in business when dealing with management. It also works with the police. If something like this happens, you want to be the one filing the report and not the other person. This places the other person as the defendant. It affects perception even though it should not.



Once again, I am glad that you are safe. You never know if he was reaching for a gun, a knife, or a tire iron that he may have tucked in his pants as he got out of the truck.



MI_Jester
 

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I live in daytona and dont blame him at all. There are a lot of drunks and crackheads around these parts that do get very rowdy. (Especially beachside and us-1). Just last week a girl that works with my girlfriend got her ass beat (in her car) for passing a guy who'd just left the Port hole in Port Orange. Glad to hear your safe and good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
johnb said:
I live in daytona and dont blame him at all. There are a lot of drunks and crackheads around these parts that do get very rowdy. (Especially beachside and us-1). Just last week a girl that works with my girlfriend got her butt beat (in her car) for passing a guy who'd just left the Port hole in Port Orange. Glad to hear your safe and good luck.


Thanks a lot



And yea, daytona and the surrounding areas are very shady and just have really bad parts of town scattered throughout



Zorro: Why would I have my permit Pulled?
 

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Florida ccw law does not require you to retreat any longer. "stand your ground" means just that. I am glad you were not hurt, but you would have been legally justified if you were afraid for your life. I had a similar incident occur to me in deerfield beach several years ago. Mine was a carful of teenage hip hoppers. I produced my weapon and informed them to "go about their business". They sped thru the red light to get away from a fully loaded .357 mag. Lucky for them, i will take my chances in court, if it ever comes to that.
 

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Sometimes they review permits where people have pulled their pistols whether it's justified or not - just part of the process -



I don't know just speculating .I hope it doesn't happen to you - but with the frame of mind Government is in these days about guns and shootings it may happen... Just be aware of it is all I'm sayin'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
zorro said:
Sometimes they review permits where people have pulled their pistols whether it's justified or not - just part of the process -



I don't know just speculating .I hope it doesn't happen to you - but with the frame of mind Government is in these days about guns and shootings it may happen... Just be aware of it is all I'm sayin'.


Oh, I thought you meant that they were going to revoke it.
 

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Good job. Find out if he can find anything out from your license plate number like your address. Watch your back.
 

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Good Lord what is world coming too, if you can't defend yourself in a situation like that what are you to do? I guess just be kind and hope for the best. I work in DC and at 1700 I am out of there! I got assaulted in DC nine yrs ago and the perp got two weeks in jail for skipping out of a court date. He was collared at a routine traffic stop in PG county. I read this and think about harvey kitell in the movie copland where he tells Freddy (Sly S.) that the world is upside down and the cop is the perp and the perp is the vic. oh well i had a bad day at work, so i bougth another PMAG for my MP15T. I got gigged at work for internet surfing I like to reag these boards at work when I am bored, my boss in the front office is an active alcoholic who has mental health issues so lazy me reading gun board at work really ticked him off. I don't now what to do other than look for another job and stop surfing the net on company time. boy do i know how to step in it or what
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
MilitaryPower said:
Good job. Find out if he can find anything out from your license plate number like your address. Watch your back.


I thought about that, but I just got this license plate on my new car. I have NC driver's license with a Florida Tag (Student in Florida... just graduated). Plus i moved since i got this plate so it's a different address anyways.



Also, if he decides to come here he doesn't know that Myself, My girlfriend, and my roomate all have firearms beside our beds at night.
 

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ToddG said:
...The only thing I might suggest is that had I been in the same situation, the moment he started to get out of his car I'd have been on the phone with 911, describing him, what he was doing, what he was driving, and hopefully loud enough that he could hear me...


I have to very much disagree with you on this one. If a threat situation is developing I want to make sure I'm in complete awareness of the threat and not trying to find my cell phone, punch in three numbers and then carry on a conversation with an operator asking me questions and giving me instructions. If enough time presented it self pulling the cell phone and pressing 9 until the phone calls 911 by itself would be an option, but at that point I would have dropped the phone and stayed on the threat at hand. The 911 operator would have dispatched an officer if they could determine the origination of the call. If not then you have them on the line immediately if you need them later. More than likely I would have stayed away from the phone and on the threat and my response instead.
 

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I've attended a few Force on Force courses where scenrios like this are practiced and critiqued by pro's.



Your situation was resolved, no shots were fired. Ya done good!
 

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I'm glad you didn't have to pull the trigger. That would have really rang your bell for years to come.



Let's hope you never have to find yourself in a similar situation.
 
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