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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys; I just joined this site. Great info.

I fired a M&P 40 when they first came out and liked it a lot. Felt great, especially for a small hand.

I'm a retired police officer from a large northeast city & have a lot of handgun experience. I own several handguns including a Browning Hi Power 9mm, which I shoot better than other guns instinctively.

Has anyone done much instinctive shooting with the M&P, and can compare it with other guns? By instinctive, I mean shooting without using sights & being able to consistantly hit the torso of a silouette target at 7-10 yards, rapid fire.

Most real life shootings are at close distances, in low light, are too stressful to use sights, and speed is critical. If you're ancient like me, you won't have time to put on your eye glasses.

I'm looking to replace my Hi Power with the M&P9, which I believe is a safer action (no cocking or safety ). Plus I need a new toy.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Welcome to our message board!




I haven't really tried instinctive shooting with the MP, the grip angle and ergonomics should be good for that kind of shooting, at least in my hands!
 

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I have done it, and when doing drills with my dad in my parents back yard I try to only shoot instinctive. Most shoots are 5-7 yards in that aspect. I have to use sights around 15 yards+. I'm starting to try to do headshots instinctive, more just trying to close the size down.



I am trying to get jtaliani to that point, he is a newer shooter, but shoots very well, at 5 yards he is catching on, but needs alot more practice.



Explain to me this, His GF shoots more consistent, but doesn't have the instinctive properties that he does.



I have taken to the M&P better than any pistol I have shot. I feel that this is one of the better pistols that have came to the market, and many others agree.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Instinctive shooting is just like throwing any projectile accurately. His GF may shoot with sights more accurately, but Jester probably has more practice with unsighted shooting. All you need is practice, and the right gun helps also.
 

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H10s1 said:
Instinctive shooting is just like throwing any projectile accurately. His GF may shoot with sights more accurately, but Jester probably has more practice with unsighted shooting. All you need is practice, and the right gun helps also.


I have the pleasure of working with 2 people that have very limited shooting experience Jon (jtaliani), and his GF(girlfriend) Monica. As I have seen in the past with training Marines to shoot, typically the females shoot better, and this is the case, but Jon is taking to shooting instinctively very well without even knowing it. I need to spend more time with them in warmer weather.



I am still humble with this practice, and hope to train with someone that is better than I, but don't have anyone close enough to make trips out to shoot with.



Would you maybe give some tips for the Newb's in this practice?
 

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Jester. I think you have the right idea. I'ts mostly practice. I've been shooting this way for 40 years. All I can tell you is to start close and concentrate on a very small spot on the target. Concentrate as hard as you can on that spot and shoot slowly at first. Different guns affect how well you shoot instinctively. So, if you own several, try them all. Also, a secure but relaxed grip work best for me. I shoot better with full sized guns than compacts. Most of us probably do.
 

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H10S1,



Ive done some point shooting with my MP and am in the process of transitioning my dept to the MP40. So far, almost everyone has been very proficient and accurate point shooting the MP at about 7-10 yards and in. They are point shooting and not using sights and most all have done very well.



I would have to answer your question with a "yes", I think the MP points very well. I think the grip angle is about as perfect (for me at least) as you can get. Only my beloved CZ's, do I rank above the MP.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I just E mailed 'Jester' of my first experience qualifying with a handgun. I practised with a similiar shape & size pellet gun. It helped my bullseye and combat scores improve. That was over 40 years ago and I still have the pellet gun. I had forgotten about that. Thanks for helping me remember that Jester.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
SeaSoldier said:
I prefer to see my sights while point shooting. Seems to take alot of the guess work out of it for me.


I'm a bit paranoid. I'm preparing for when lighting is poor and or speed is critical. Shooting is not only sport to me.
 

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I would think that if there is enough light to identify a target friend or foe, there would be enough light to see your sights. I'm not talking a crisp front sight as in competition, more of a gross sight aquisition. There is for sure a case for "point shooting", such as from retention. I would agree also that speed is critical, but not more so than accuracy. Target identification is also critical.
 

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H10s1, I would also aggree with you in that the Browning HiPower at least for me gives the best natural point of aim. Hopefully over time the M&P will become at least as good.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
SeaSoldier said:
I would think that if there is enough light to identify a target friend or foe, there would be enough light to see your sights. I'm not talking a crisp front sight as in competition, more of a gross sight aquisition. There is for sure a case for "point shooting", such as from retention. I would agree also that speed is critical, but not more so than accuracy. Target identification is also critical.


If you shoot with one eye closed, it's even more difficult to see in low light conditions, what you can see with both eyes open. Sorry to nit pick , you gotta go with what works for you.
 

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You are correct sir. "You gotta go with what works for you" Thanks for keeping this civilized. There are boards where this woulda gotten out of hand. I kinda like it here.
 

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I'm not the biggest fan of "instinctive" or point shooting. I've only ever met one person who I would describe as a good shot using the technique. For most situations, you are better off spending the extra .01 seconds to get a sloppy sight picture using the whole front end of the gun as the front sight. The little extra effort results in a LOT better shot placement form my experience, and with handguns being a fairly inefficient manstopper, shot placement is important.



For situations where you need something along the lines of point shooting, you really need to combine it with retention techniques.



As for guns being good for point shooting, it's all ergonomics. Mainly grip angle. Just cause it works for me doesn't mean it'll work for you. Anything with multiple grip straps will have a better chance of working for more people, but that's about it. The M&P works well for me, as do 1911s, sigs, and to a slightly lesser extent USPs and CZ based platforms. I'd consider all of them to have decent pointability. Things with a more radical grip angle tend to work less well for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
raz-0 said:
I'm not the biggest fan of "instinctive" or point shooting. I've only ever met one person who I would describe as a good shot using the technique. For most situations, you are better off spending the extra .01 seconds to get a sloppy sight picture using the whole front end of the gun as the front sight. The little extra effort results in a LOT better shot placement form my experience, and with handguns being a fairly inefficient manstopper, shot placement is important.



For situations where you need something along the lines of point shooting, you really need to combine it with retention techniques.



As for guns being good for point shooting, it's all ergonomics. Mainly grip angle. Just cause it works for me doesn't mean it'll work for you. Anything with multiple grip straps will have a better chance of working for more people, but that's about it. The M&P works well for me, as do 1911s, sigs, and to a slightly lesser extent USPs and CZ based platforms. I'd consider all of them to have decent pointability. Things with a more radical grip angle tend to work less well for me.


I'll try your method of using the front end of the gun for sighting. Maybe it's as fast. I might already be doing it without being aware of it.

Any opinions on how Glocks point for them?
 

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Any opinions on how Glocks point for them?[/quote]



The M&P points similar to a 1911. After shooting my 1911 and switching to my G17, the muzzle would point about 6" high for me. The grip angle is more steep so I would naturally heel it. It can be shot well, but it takes some adjustment. if your use to 1911, BHP you'll like the M&P.



Learning point shooting is benifical even IF you prefer Front Sight Press because it gets the gun in the general area and you don't have to search for the front sight as much, it just there. 5 yards and in I can point shoot accurately within an 8" circle. Anything past that I need a sight picture.
 
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