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Discussion Starter #1
Now I realize that this had probably been debated and debated, but I am not looking for a 9mm vs .40 vs .45 debate, I am just looking for an answer to a simple question...



Will the .40 get the job done in a self defense, home invasion scenario?



I know people will say shot placement is the key or the ammo used, etc. But with all things being equal, will the .40 do the job?



The reason I ask this I picked up a few casings from the range and noticed that one of my spent .40s would drop into a .45 casing. Then that had me wondering that the .45 really may have been the proper choice...



Can you guys give me some peace of mind? :?





Thanks very much in advance for your insight(s)...



Joe
 

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Strait up answer: The 40 will do the job if you do yours. You have to hit the target for either to be effective. If you do they are.



Would you rather be hit by a softball or hardball?



:twisted:
 

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I'd rather be hit 5 times with a softball than once with a hardball. 8)



.40 will "do the job", as you say, as long as you do yours. Will the .45 do it better? Sure, at least marginally since it is a bigger projectile, but not significantly.
 

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If it's strictly home defense, what about a 12 ga. shotgun? That will do the job! Pistols are for personal protection that is why they are referred to as sidearms and not primary weapons.



Now, to answer your question, the other individuals who replied have already answered your question. If you bought a .45 ACP and saw a .500 S&W Magnum casing at the range, would you still feel underpowered when that 45 ACP fell into the .500 casing? Quit worrying and gain proficiency with that .40 M&P!
 

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The 9mm .40 and .45 are all very capable weapons for self defense as evidenced by the number of people who rely on them every day and the research out there (on this site as well). Rest assured the .40 is well suited for self defense and you will never read about a real life situation where the defender was underpowered...and if you do run across that situation, well a 9mm .40 or a .45 is probably not going to make too much of a difference.
 

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a 223 will drop into a 40 case; does that mean anything?



No; 40's a fine round.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys, I guess I am having that feeling you get when you drive off the car lot in a new car, just to see one of the next year's model's rolling onto the lot!




I really appreciate the time you guys take to share your experiences.



Thanks again,



Joe
 

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Joe Merchant said:
Thanks guys, I guess I am having that feeling you get when you drive off the car lot in a new car, just to see one of the next year's model's rolling onto the lot!




Joe


It's called "Buyers Remorse" and is actually pretty common.
 

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Joe Merchant said:
Now I realize that this had probably been debated and debated, but I am not looking for a 9mm vs .40 vs .45 debate, I am just looking for an answer to a simple question...



Will the .40 get the job done in a self defense, home invasion scenario?



I know people will say shot placement is the key or the ammo used, etc. But with all things being equal, will the .40 do the job?



The reason I ask this I picked up a few casings from the range and noticed that one of my spent .40s would drop into a .45 casing. Then that had me wondering that the .45 really may have been the proper choice...



Can you guys give me some peace of mind? :?





Thanks very much in advance for your insight(s)...



Joe




OMG, underpowered? damn, why do people think ya need a .50 to knock someone down? On top of that you have a full mag, hopefully, to fill the BG with. Every BG is not a 300 pound dope addic thats so high on meth that he can't feel the pain, and even so, shoot the sucker in the torso or better yet the head and he's done. Need to worry about real things like taxes



*Edited by YukonGlocker*
 

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tsix said:
It's called "Buyers Remorse" and is actually pretty common.


That's why I went out and got a 45.
Joking aside I like my .40 better than the 1911 just because its a bit smaller. Besides if you are forced to defend your self most likely you'll be less than 10 feet away from the person and I would think that the person will stop after getting hit with either round. Of course like everyone else has stated, shot placement is key. Hitting a non vital area with a .40 might not slow them down as much as a .45 but two to the chest and one to the head will stop someone with almost any round you use.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have shot my Dad's Ruger 345 and I like the results of the .45 alot!

Maybe I can sleep a bit better at night thinking with the .40 I have 5 extra shots in the clip... :?



Joe
 

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I hate to nit-pick, but the OP is asking a question based on misconceptions about the effectiveness of a particular caliber. Because we are attempting to dispel certain myths and misconceptions, I have to comment on a few things.



newgunner said:
shoot the sucker in the torso or better yet the head and he's done.
To expect that an attacker will be "done" after a shot to the torso is unrealistic.



NastyMP said:
if you are forced to defend your self most likely you'll be less than 10 feet away from the person and I would think that the person will stop after getting hit with either round.
Not necessarily. Don't assume that.



Hitting a non vital area with a .40 might not slow them down as much as a .45
They will probably have a very comparable effect.
 

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any hunter will tell you things don't just drop when shot, they keep going until they bleed out. I have seen deer jump and take several steps even when hit with ridiculous firepower like a 300win mag at 20yds straight through the heart . If that much energy and penetration didn't stop a deer from covering 10 more yards no hand gun in the world is going to stop a person from getting to you if you are 10 feet away and they are intent on getting to you.



Having said that I carry my M&P40 everyday but go to sleep with the AR on duty. If I ever have to use either I do not expect an instant stop and am prepared to put multiple rounds on target in short order.
 

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Dan Burwell said:
any hunter will tell you things don't just drop when shot, they keep going until they bleed out. I have seen deer jump and take several steps even when hit with ridiculous firepower like a 300win mag at 20yds straight through the heart . If that much energy and penetration didn't stop a deer from covering 10 more yards no hand gun in the world is going to stop a person from getting to you if you are 10 feet away and they are intent on getting to you.



Having said that I carry my M&P40 everyday but go to sleep with the AR on duty. If I ever have to use either I do not expect an instant stop and am prepared to put multiple rounds on target in short order.


Well said...
 

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pretty much any handgun cartridge will take more than one shot to stop a determined attacker unless you have good shot placement.



Basically only two things will cause a stoper to attack.



1) The attacker changes his mind. This can usually be accomplished with most calibers with most attackers. Even a .22 will ruin your weekend. This is the primary way a handgun ends a confrontation.



2) You incapacitate your attacker. Which boils down to killing him, and the method by which you kill him will be some form of shock.



The types of shock are

a) hypovolaemic shock. Basically blood loss due to bleeding resulting in not enough blood to function. There really isn't much difference in the ammount of blood loss between a .40 and a .45 that hit in the exact same location over any short period of time. For the blood loss to be rapid, either round would have to hit something vital (i.e. good shot placement) for the effect to be rapid.



b) cardiogenic shock. This is bsically the same as above, but due to the heart not working. Additionally there is risk of damage to the heart muscles, and thus it being non-recoverable even if proper blood volume and flow are restored through extraordinary means. It's basically meaningless in a gunfight unless someone has a heart attack.



c) obstructive shock. This is basically the same as a), but due to physical obstruction or mechanical impediment to the flow of blood. Might come up ina gunfight, depending on what you shoot, but short of maybe a lung shot causing an embolism, not going to just put someone down real fast.



d) Distributive shock. This is absically the same as a) except it is due to a systemic dilation of blood vessles. It has sub-types of anaphylactic (irrelevant), septic (irrelevant on the time scale of a gunfight), and neurogenic. This last one is relevant, as it is the result of damage to the nervous system causing insufficient blood supply. Once agian, you are talking about good shot placement.



So basically you can shoot someone in a place that will make them bleed out from arterial blood flow, which is going to ammount ot hitting a vital organ or artery, in which case it's the heart pumping doing the real killing work rather than the .05 inches of bullet diameter. Or you can clip the spinal cord, brain stem, or other important bit of nervous system. Which given the squishiness of the human body internally, that .05 isn't making a real difference in what you hit. It's still about shot placement.



About the only other thing that might play a large roll in ending a fight is cripling a n attacker. Which is where you get the school of though of shooting for the pelvic gridle. But to REALLY put them down, you'd likley have to shatter it. Bullets are more likely to create a hole than shatter it.

Even if you do shatter it, if they are armed, you may still be at risk.



The current thinking on defnsive rounds is that you need sufficient penetration to reach a vital organ to have a chance. The current rule is 12" of penetration. 9mm, 40, 45 all have rounds capable of such. Really high velocity pistol rounds like .454, .44, .357, etc shoudl also be quite capable of this. .380 or 9x18? not so much.
 

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Wow, that was really informative; thank you raz-0.
 

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i do not have a .40 or a .45 (yet) i bought my full size 9 and i do not feel at all undergunned. i have noticed that a lot of "stopping power" blogs often are for "one shot stops" i do not intend to just shoot once. imo, i shoot until the threat is gone. my uncle is retired fbi, he has told me of men taking .45 shots without dropping, only to be overtaken with a snub nose .38. Imo i try to stay at least with a .38 special. (however i would take a walther or sig .380 in a heartbeat as a carry gun. i love those guns)
 

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Dan Burwell said:
any hunter will tell you things don't just drop when shot, they keep going until they bleed out. I have seen deer jump and take several steps even when hit with ridiculous firepower like a 300win mag at 20yds straight through the heart . If that much energy and penetration didn't stop a deer from covering 10 more yards no hand gun in the world is going to stop a person from getting to you if you are 10 feet away and they are intent on getting to you.



Having said that I carry my M&P40 everyday but go to sleep with the AR on duty. If I ever have to use either I do not expect an instant stop and am prepared to put multiple rounds on target in short order.


I can attest to this. I once shot a deer square in the chest from 30 yds with a .30-06, expecting it to drop right there--but it didn't! It ran (ok, sort of stumbled) another 50-75 yds and laid down. I finished him off with, coincidentally, a .40 cal. Glock. I then saw that the .30-06 round went in the front of the chest, then ripped a 12-14" gash down the top of the back. That buck was halfway ripped in half! I counldn't believe it kept going after a wound like that.



P.S. The NRA personal protection course recommends .380 ACP as a minimum for self defense.
 

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I know my .40 will get the job done...



One noise I think everyone knows (especially b.g.s) is someone racking a shotgun that in itself is partial home defense
 

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Discussion Starter #20
One noise I think everyone knows (especially b.g.s) is someone racking a shotgun that in itself is partial home defense


Heh, yeah I think that is half the battle right there.



Not to hijack my own thread, but that alludes to another question.....Rail Mounted Flashlight or not?



I think they are nice, but can also give away your position....thoughts?




Joe
 
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