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Mostly cocked

pulling the trigger rotates the sear downwards, the angle on the rear face of the sear causes a caming action against the striker moving the striker to the rear very slightly, thus finishing the "cocking".



Dan
 

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think I read its 98% cocked, just enough for SSP in IDPA, where as the XD qualifies as SAO cause its 100% cocked.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ummmmm--isn't the Sigma striker un-cocked?



So, if the M&P is 98% cocked it is cocked more than the Glock--I think a Glock is maybe 60% cocked.



98% cocked, no wonder the trigger pull feels so good.



Now I definitly think it needs an external manual safety...
 

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After shooting the XD series for so long, I have gotten used to the no safety.
 

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itr674 said:
Ummmmm--isn't the Sigma striker un-cocked?



So, if the M&P is 98% cocked it is cocked more than the Glock--I think a Glock is maybe 60% cocked.



98% cocked, no wonder the trigger pull feels so good.



Now I definitly think it needs an external manual safety...


The M&P has a firing pin safety. The firing pin is blocked until the trigger is pulled back.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
yea, but just about everything today has a firing pin block--I was just hoping the striker was nt precocked...
 

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My understanding.. and please tell me if I am wrong.. is that the trigger completes about 20% of the cocking.. in this way it is like the Glock...



I do think that Jester is not quite correct, in that the XD is "fully cocked" and it is pretty close to a SAO. The trigger on the XD performs one function... it releases the sear, (well.. two if you figure it pivots the trigger bar, and disengages the striker block safety..but that is a technical argument better left to professionals.), which makes the gun go "bang!" But there are safeties.. with the XD.. you have the USA trigger safety, the Grip safety, and the Strider Block safety. Some might consider the long trigger pull, which serves no real mechanical purpose a safety.. kind of like a revolver.. you know if you are pulling the trigger!!



On the other hand.. the M&P has only it's trigger safety to rely on. There is a "drop safety" but I am not sure yet exactly how it works. I won't really know until I get some instructions on how to disassemble the pistol in detail. I don't dare do it without instructions. There is also the magazine disconnect.. which I for one like.. I am not really sure why others want to remove it.



My .02



Raymond
 

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I feel perfectly comfortable without any extra safetys on the M&P, just as I do with Glocks. All you have to do is keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to put holes in your "target". :wink:



I ordered my M&P without the internal lock, and without the mag disconnect. I like my firearms as simple as possible. I have yet to hear of a good reason to have a mag disconnect. I want my pistol to fire with or without a mag in it.
 

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I have yet to hear of a good reason not to have a mag disconect.. I don't really understand the reasoning.



Maybe that would be an interesting topic.



Raymond
 

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Captain Ray said:
I have yet to hear of a good reason not to have a mag disconect.. I don't really understand the reasoning.



Maybe that would be an interesting topic.



Raymond


The main point to their invention was for LEO use.



Scenario: If an officer is in fighting over his sidearm with a bad guy, he can drop the mag thereby rendering the pistol inoperable and move to his back up piece while the bad guy is standing there with an inoperable gun.



IMHO they lost all credibility when most LEA's would not purchase mag disconnect equipped firearms, so S&W had to remove them to compete for LE contracts.



I suspect liability concerns from the civilian market is the only point to them now. Just a feel good feature for court of law use.
 

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The 2 safetys that the M&P have perform the same as the XD in the Trigger safety, not quite as pretty, is the same, and the striker safety/stop.



The only thing that the XD has that the M&P doesn't is the backstrap safety.



And yes, the posers that be say that the XD is fully cocked and considered SAO, AKA 1911 style, you just don't see the hammer.



If you look at the travel on the M&P you will see that it is well over 80%. It only has the camming action of the sear to disengauge it.
 

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Captain Ray said:
I have yet to hear of a good reason not to have a mag disconect.. I don't really understand the reasoning.



Maybe that would be an interesting topic.



Raymond


At our club we shoot "defensive pistol" matches using IDPA rules. At the end of each stage, before reholstering, the rules require that we (1) remove the magazine, (2) open the slide and show the range officer that the chamber is empty, (3) close the slide, and (4) pull the trigger. Obviously, if the gun has a magazine safety, there would be one more step necessary - insert an empty mag before pulling the trigger. I prefer to avoid this hassle.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Does anyone have a line drawing of the sear/striker setup. I'd like to see how the camming action works and be assured the striker can't slip past the sear.



I have the exploded view from this site--it appears the trigger bar.arm "pulls" rather than pushes like a Glock?
 

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don95sml said:
[quote name='Captain Ray']I have yet to hear of a good reason not to have a mag disconnect.. I don't really understand the reasoning.



Maybe that would be an interesting topic.



Raymond


At our club we shoot "defensive pistol" matches using IDPA rules. At the end of each stage, before reholstering, the rules require that we (1) remove the magazine, (2) open the slide and show the range officer that the chamber is empty, (3) close the slide, and (4) pull the trigger. Obviously, if the gun has a magazine safety, there would be one more step necessary - insert an empty mag before pulling the trigger. I prefer to avoid this hassle.[/quote]







Ok.. I can see that.. I don't shoot IDPA.. I would like to, but I don't have any buddies who participate in this sport... If I were to shoot IDPA, I would probably buy a gun specific for "sport". All my pistols.. with the exception of the Ruger MkIII 22/45 are for combat. In a combat pistol, I don't see any real disadvantage in a mag disconnect.



If I am ever in close in combat with an adversary capable of disarming my pistol by ejecting the magazine... well.. I am in BIG TROUBLE!!



I like the magazine disconnect because I can pull the magazine and put my pistol in "safe" mode. I can carry 15+1.. If I am in a situation where I want to carry my magazine, and one in the chamber separate.. I can do that...



I dunno'... I like having options...



Raymond
 

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ok.. after re-reading that.. it does not make very much sense.. what I am trying to say is;



If I want to carry one in the chamber, and a 15 round mag on me... all I have to do to activate the gun, is slide in the magazine.. I don't have to rack the slide to chamber a round.... but... if I do not insert a magazine, the gun is inoperable.. this seems to me an advantage in some situations... I hope I am making some kind of sense...



Raymond
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I like the magazine disconnect because I can pull the magazine and put my pistol in "safe" mode. I can carry 15+1.. If I am in a situation where I want to carry my magazine, and one in the chamber separate.. I can do that...



I dunno'... I like having options...


I second "I like having options..." I currently carry 3rd gen S&W just so when I go somewhere I can't carry I remove the mag, mag goes with me, firearm stays in vehicle and vehicle gets locked.



I'm pretty sure there have been several documented cases of S&W mag disconnects saving cops. I wish someone had a database where we could compare the number of saves because of the mag disconnect to instances where the last chambered round saved the day.



Of course in the end I would still opt for the option...
 

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I like having the option also. I have 2 M&P 9s both no lock, one with mag disconnect and one without. I let my son use the one with the disconnect when we are at the range. He's 17 and been shooting with me since he was 5. I like the extra layer of safety for him as I don't think we will run into any BGs at the range. I cannot see the situation where I would have to insert a mag in the closed slide position. I was a rifle and revolver guy for years and bought my first pistol in 1993. My boys were 4 and 14 at the time and I bought the S&W 5906 because of the mag disconnect feature was a extra layer of protection even though the guns are kept in safes. BTW that 5906 has got to have 10k rounds through it without a failure of any kind, gun or ammo related. It's reliability sold me on pistols.
 
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