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Discussion Starter #1
Recently purchased a new M&P40 and I've got what I consider major problems, a nibbling issue, and minor quirks.



Major Problems:



-First of all I've got a small crack on the ejector similar to a post already on the forum (this is before even shooting it once).

-Second, the slide seems to be shaving a part of the polymer frame specifically the inner upper part of the dust cover. I believe a similar problem has been posted before.



Nibbling Issue:



-More side to side play in the slide than I've experienced with any other handgun. I know it doesn't affect accuracy but it has made me think about the overall quality of the pistol.



Minor Quirks:



-Don't like the factory sights (big dots in the rear, small in front), will change when I get a trigger job.

-Trigger feels like it has a two-stage feel to it when riding it to get to reset point. Thought I was at reset, pulled the trigger and no boom.

-Surfacing under trigger guard or could be the mag release (have switched it to other side to see) causes pain to middle finger during practice session.

-Doesn't feel like I can get as high of a grip as I feel like I should (small gap between the web of my hand and the beavertail), however the recoil does feel comfortable.

-Not as accurate as I would like with it though I am very certain it is my unfamiliarity with the trigger and not the gun (shot well when using pistol bag as a rest, at least for the first few shots).



Likes, I do have them:

-Trigger feels crisp, has a relatively short reset, breaks at 7#.

-ambi-controls (I'm a lefty)

-fits my tiny hands well enough (though I'm not sure if I like the medium or small grip yet)



Since this post is in tech difficulties, my question has more to do with if anyone else has run into my problems and how well/quickly S&W corrected it. I've only shot 150-300 rounds max out of it so far and am planning to shoot about 1000 rounds through it before calling S&W. I want to make sure no other issues arise. I'd like to put it through its paces in a USPSA match but don't have all the needed gear for it. If your a USPSA shooter, I'd love to hear your experiences with it as well.
 

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In competition my M&P has out performed my Glocks! I guess it just points better for me. You don't need much to compete! 3 or more mags, holster, mag pouch is the minimum.



S&W will make your gun right and they will do it within a couple weeks at the very longest. Get some more rounds through it and then report back to us!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply coltman. It may be a while before I invest in equipment for my M&P. I may get the holster and a couple more mags and cheapskate the rest with equipment I already have for USPSA if I decide put it through its paces. I still can't see it outperforming my TRP Operator or my Glock in competition but I think that is more a matter of trigger/dry fire time.



A couple more questions however come to mind. For competition the Blade-Tech DOH seems to be my best choice but I'm also considering a Safariland 6377 (I like their suede-lined kydex and product quality. Anyone have any other suggestions???



The other question is in regards to frame revisions and serial numbers. I have revision "N" and Serial number MPH8xxx. What are the differences between other series and revisions???
 

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Rev N is just a "note" of where in the line of manufacturing upgrades that pistol was made. Until just recently it was the most up to date. S&W will not say what changes where made!



Check your Glock holster and mag pouches to see if the M&P will work in them. The DOH may become illegal in USPSA next year under new rules, I haven't read up on it but I know it was on the chopping block!
 

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siglock2340 said:
Now I can add a broken striker to the list. Hopefully S&W will send a replacement striker.


Hey siglock2340, sorry to hear about your striker. Can you give some details as to what happened. Were you using a snap cap? How many total rounds fired so far?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
No snap cap. 3-400 live rounds fired. Countless dry firing. Called CS, I am not a very happy M&P owner right now.
 

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Well, "countless dry firing" without a snap cap can result in problems for any pistol. That's what they make snap caps for. 8)
 

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siglock2340 said:
Hasn't hurt any of my other pistols.


I've personally seen Berettas, Glocks, and SIGs with damaged parts due to excessive dry-firing. I know for a fact that both Beretta and SIG recommend against excessive dry-firing without a snap cap.



Most modern pistols have a firing pin block (aka firing pin safety) of some kind. This is a piece of metal which prevents the firing pin (or striker) from moving forward unless the trigger is pulled. When the trigger is pulled, the block is moved out of the way allowing the firing pin to move forward. Basically, the firing pin and the block each has a "cut" in it, and these two spaces line up when the gun is fired.



However, if the firing pin moves farther forward than its design allows for (ie, there is no primer at the firing pin channel hole), the pin can overshoot its stopping point and smash against the firing pin block and/or the inside edge of the firing pin channel hole. Over time, this wear can lead to fouling in the firing pin channel, burrs (in the hole, on the pin, and/or on the block), and eventually breakage of the pin.



Or, put more simply, they make snap-caps for a reason.
 

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AZoom Action Trainers are around $12 (for 6 9mm caps). They have a primer that's flush with the case, guaranteeing that the striker will engage it. They're well worth the peace of mind when dry-firing and the M&P's striker doesn't seem to do near the damage to their primers as the Glock's striker. I've been using the same AZoom in my M&P for quite a while and it's showing little wear.
 

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ER_STL does bring up a really important point. Snap-caps wear out over time, too. They're cheap enough that folks who dry-fire a lot really should consider replacing one after it's been used extensively for a few months.
 

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Well, "countless dry firing" without a snap cap can result in problems for any pistol. That's what they make snap caps for.


I do not reload my 9mm and use them several times to dry-fire with before discarding them. Do you think that they adequately protect the striker?
 

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ws -- While I wouldnt' consider it as good as using a proper snap-cap, it's certainly a huge improvement over nothing and probably adequate.



There's also a huge difference between what one person considers "regular dry-fire" and what a serious competitive shooter does. There are competitive shooters who might dry-fire their pistol a thousand or more times per week. After months and months of that, the striker or firing pin might finally start to have a problem. So for the occasional dry-fire practice, it's probably not even worth worrying about.



Both times I went through Rogers Shooting School, three nights of the week we did group dry-fire training and I never used a snap-cap for any of that. The guns can handle a good bit of dry-fire, just not tens of thousands of reps.



Another common approach, actually, is simply to get a new firing pin/striker every 3-6 months. You never need to worry about snap-caps and as long as you inspect your parts every month or so, you're fine. Just remember to swap out the part before it becomes a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So knowing competitive shooters in this thousand dry-fires per week range, I don't hear a lot of them using snap caps and firing pin failures don't happen within the first month or LESS of usage for them. I think S&W settled on a cheaply made piece for a relatively cheap part. It's going to take a lot of convincing to make me think otherwise. If y'all are happy with your M&P's and have no problems, more power to you. I must have one of the few lemons, but even before the breakage I am very skeptical of the overall quality of my M&P. My glock has infinitely more dry fire sessions than my M&P and have had no problems. It just seems you guys are making excuses for a part that shouldn't have failed so quickly. I may say "countless" but honestly with the time constraints of my schedule I may have gotten an average of 50 pulls per day max.
 

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Sorry to hear of your issues with your pistol. I 'm sure that S&W will make it all right for you if you give it a chance. Snap caps may not be absolutely necessary but to me they are really cheap insurance for all my guns. To each their own as usual and YMMV. Good luck with your M&P.
 

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siglock -- Well, ok, but it's a bit unfair to blame us for reading your "countless" and thinking you actually meant a lot, instead of maybe a couple thousand.



I know many competitive shooters who've damaged strikers/firing pins. And like I said, I know from personal experience that both Beretta and SIG recommend against excessive dry firing of their pistols for the reasons I listed.



I'm not quite sure why you bought an M&P if your opinion of them was low to begin with.



I haven't heard anyone say that your gun is fine. No one is telling you that you're hallucinating. But as was discussed in another thread related to a different issue, there's a huge leap from "my striker broke" to "a cheaply made piece."



This isn't a condemnation of you, your reaction is normal but that doesn't make it logical. A friend of mine, upon breaking the firing pin in his SIG P226, sent an email that spread throughout his large (1000+) agency decrying that SIGs were junk. Turned out that he had excessively dry-fired the gun, by his own admission, and not another gun in the whole agency had ever experienced such a problem. So, do you say the part was at fault? Even if you think the part was at fault, does that automatically mean that every other gun of that make/model is suspect?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank you for a much fairer response ToddG. I didn't have a very low opinion of the M&P to begin with. I actually had very high hopes for it considering the 1911 grip angle and the really great out of the box (for factory) trigger. I was really looking forward to getting a Burwell trigger job on it and replacing the factory sights but now I'm very cynical towards making that investment.



I understand it sounds like I may be making an unfair assessment of the M&P based on one part but as stated in the original post I have other issues prior to the striker breakage. Sorry if it seems like I'm unnecessarily slamming the pistol, but there is so much potential for this pistol design-wise that I feel it unfortunate that to me it seems like so many compromises were made parts wise. If you like I will elaborate, this will be written in my write up to S&W when I turn in the pistol. According to the CS rep I spoke with they actually meet weekly with complaints and technical problems they encounter. Hopefully this can lead to product improvement and that my words as well as otheres just don't fall on deaf ears.



KCII, I guess I just sound like some other Glock troll but hey one of the reasons I didn't get a Glock was the KB stories as well as not really loving the trigger feel. I give IMHO fair evals and opinions of any firearm I shoot.



Hopefully S&W will make this right to my satisfaction.
 
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