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Is pulling a gun justified in this situation?

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Discussion Starter #1
I had a friend recently get pulled out of a cab and jumped. He had another man in the cab with him. This friend is a 23 year old fire fighter and he met the other guy working out at the gym. They were pulled out of the cab around 3am and beat up.







would that justify pulling a firearm on a person? I'm pretty sure if I was pulled from any vehicle while carrying I'd draw my firearm with the impression the other person is either going to stop and run or pull something out which whould escalate the situation to a point where I'm about to enter a battle of my life.
 

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I'm not sure about NV state law but if he feared for his life I'd say it would be justified.
 

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If I'm carrying nobody is going to get a free shot or an oppurtunity to beat me up if I can help it. That gives the person attacking you a chance to get control of your gun which is really bad news.





I would've tried to get out of there, and if not possible my gun would have been pulled out.
 

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Are you asking if I would feel justified or if I would be justified in the eyes of the law? Sometimes they are very different things. :wink:



In California, it all has to do with factors associated with being outnumbered, or much smaller/weaker than the attacker, but generally, no you can't pull a gun when simply being beat up. Courts have ruled that you have a right to self-defense but you can not use deadly force against those just "looking for fisticuffs".



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Discussion Starter #6
I'm wondering about the "feared for my life" portion. Getting jumped I don't ever think I'd fear for my life unless they were stabbing me or something. If 6 guys jumped me I'd assume they would just beat me up, take my stuff and leave.



Being armed in this situation, I BELIEVE, pulling my firearm would have been justified by me and by LEO in this state. Obviously a cop wasn't around so...
 

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Justified, like you said in a situation like that, sometimes its necessary to pull your arms. Especially if some punks are in the mood to inflict harm on decent folk!!!!! I cant stand when innocent people have this happen, but I guess its the way of man!



How are they doing?
 

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tstrenuous10 said:
If 6 guys jumped me I'd assume they would just beat me up, take my stuff and leave.



Being armed in this situation, I BELIEVE, pulling my firearm would have been justified by me and by LEO in this state. Obviously a cop wasn't around so...


You can NOT assume anything... You must treat every attacker, or would be attacker as a threat, if they did not comply to your verbal commands, and again, your vehicle is an extension of your home in most states. If the did not comply to the commands you are in your right, because you don't know if they intend to harm, or kill you. Are you willing to take that chance?



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tstrenuous10 said:
Sound like just a bunch of brusies and pain the next day. Nothing broken but I don't know the entire story. I heard it from the roomate.


well they can walk away from bruises, good thing no broken bones, could have started a war!!!!
 

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Justified--Outnumbered and fear for your life. Just be sure to be the first one to call the cops! Regardless--That's the tough decision us holders of a ccw permit face.
 

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I didn't vote on this one because this is a tricky one. Too many variables. I would have to say that if someone starts pulling me out of my car (I don't have to take a cab), I'll have my muzzle in their direction before I get all of the way out of the car. My car doors also lock automatically when you put it in gear. Which raises the question, had he been drinking? If so, no gun.

Inside a car can a pretty good vantage point though, especially back seat where there's no darn steering wheel in the way. Turn sideways when you see them approaching (if you didn't see them approaching then you weren't paying attention), they open the door, you kick them in the face a couple of times, tell the cabbie to drive away. Or grab their arm on the way in, yank it really hard, their head hits the roof of the car, tell the cabbie to drive away. I know I know, easier said than done. Wait, you could just lock the door! Hindsight is a b!7ch.

Like I said, too many variables. You'd think in that kind of neighborhood they'd have the car doors locked already. Technically, no you can't pull a gun on someone that's beating you up. That is what pepper spray is for. You are supposed to wait until the beating becomes so bad that you fear they might kill you, then have the sense and motor skills to draw and fire while you are on the ground being kicked..... At least in NC that's the deal.

Are you asking if I would feel justified or if I would be justified in the eyes of the law? Sometimes they are very different things. Wink
yeah, what Donald said.



I like to think that if I ever needed to pull my gun, there will be no internal dialogue. It either HAS to happen RIGHT NOW or not at all. That's what I'd like to think.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
johndoe1027 said:
I didn't vote on this one because this is a tricky one. Too many variables. I would have to say that if someone starts pulling me out of my car (I don't have to take a cab)


Lets say you do tonight. Your car is in the shop and you don't have a way to get around but friends that drive you to work.



I'll have my muzzle in their direction before I get all of the way out of the car.

johndoe1027 said:
My car doors also lock automatically when you put it in gear.


Not everyone has a car that does this. I don't lock mine when I drive because if I roll and car catches on fire then it's going to be something going against me when I'm stuck.



johndoe1027 said:
Inside a car can a pretty good vantage point though, especially back seat where there's no darn steering wheel in the way. Turn sideways when you see them approaching (if you didn't see them approaching then you weren't paying attention)


So if I get into the cab and they pull me out before I sit down it's my fault? I know I can't watch everything all the time.



johndoe1027 said:
tell the cabbie to drive away. Or grab their arm on the way in, yank it really hard, their head hits the roof of the car, tell the cabbie to drive away. I know I know, easier said than done. Wait, you could just lock the door! Hindsight is a b!7ch.


Let's say you're in traffic outside the club with a lot of people trying to leave and cabbies trying to get closer to the spot.





johndoe1027 said:
Technically, no you can't pull a gun on someone that's beating you up. That is what pepper spray is for. You are supposed to wait until the beating becomes so bad that you fear they might kill you, then have the sense and motor skills to draw and fire while you are on the ground being kicked..... At least in NC that's the deal.


This is what I was looking for.





I like to think that if I ever needed to pull my gun, there will be no internal dialogue. It either HAS to happen RIGHT NOW or not at all. That's what I'd like to think.
 

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Oops, I thought I replied yesterday and apparently I didn't. hmmmm Well here goes.

Sorry about the severe lapse into keyboard commando-ism there, I try not to do that.



Okay so I take a cab one night because I just HAVE to go out and all 3 vehicles are in the shop or otherwise un-driveable. I have a friend with me. I will assume we are not going drinking (since I would leave my M&P at the house if that were the case). I can't come up with a reason to take a cab to somewhere that I could carry into.... No bar or restaurant carry here (December we get to carry in restaurants :jumps up and down cheering:). Okay, nevermind, Let's say I'm carrying and in a cab next year to get a bite to eat with a friend. I would do a quick scan of the immediate surroundings before I get into the car. I do a quick scan of immediate surroundings before I get into anything, buildings, cars, um anything else one would "get into"... I do not take a mental picture of all possible vantage points and ponder the possible attack methods for the given environment. I would get way to dang paranoid if I did all of that. I just look around to make sure two thugs aren't about to jump me as I enter....

Let's say you're in traffic outside the club with a lot of people trying to leave and cabbies trying to get closer to the spot.
I would not take the shot, too many people around. Hopefully one of them would help me were i too lose the fight. I am being jumped by two guys right? I know if I ever see anyone get jumped (I don't care why, jumping someone is never cool) I will help. I've heard of people being nearly killed due to a jumping that lasted too long. OK, back on track.



If we were out in the middle of a dark unoccupied street and stopped at a red light and these guys pull me out of the cab, I would pepper spray the h377 out of them and probably kick them a couple of times for good measure (or just because I have a temper). I don't think there any laws that say you can't have pepper spray on your hip. It draws very quickly on those lanyards that you see the meter maids wearing. And you don't end up catching a charge. :thumbs up: I would also hope that would keep them from pulling people from cabs and jumping them in the future.



About the locks on my car doors, I hate them but they would help in this situation were it not in the shop.

So if I get into the cab and they pull me out before I sit down it's my fault? I know I can't watch everything all the time.
No one can watch everything all of the time. Agreed.

Not to nick pick (okay maybe a little), but there is like a half of a second between getting in a car and sitting down. There's just not much room for standing in there... They'd have to be olympic sprinters or something to get to you in the time it takes to get in and close the door. I guess you can never tell what a criminals will do.



I know you didn't want all of this "what if" crap. Here's my final answer.

No you don't shoot someone for beating you up. I would pepper spray them, taser them whatever, then take a few shots just to make me feel better, call the cops before anyone else does, wait on their arrival. File attempted assault and attempted robbery charges, and whatever else they'll let you file. You may have to go to court but that's better than getting beat up and robbed IMO.

If they have a visible weapon, shoot to kill.

Sorry about taking up all of the real estate on this thread. I hope I answered your question. BTW, my (or any other poster's) opinion should never be taken as fact of any kind. I assume that we all knew that already.
 

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In a case like this I probably wouldn't pull a gun, but that's where the Emerson Commander lockblade would come out and I wouldn't hesitate to use it they didn't step off.
 

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It's a borderline situation, and the description is too vague to give a reasonable answer.



Age, weight, and physical ability of both of the defenders, and same for the attackers are needed.



If there are two guy in the truck and one gets pulled out by one person of about equal stature, then by law you are probably unjustified.



If two guys get dragged out by 4, there is a severe disparity of force, and then it probably is justified.



If defnder A gets dragged out, but ddefender B does not and is armed. If the beating being dealt out by attacker A is severe, then the beating is "life threatening" (often something that will maim or disfigure as well as kill). Also, even without disparity of force, if the attack is an attempted rape in many places, you are justified in defending or intervening with deadly force iuin many states.





Without consideration for the law, being dragged out of a motor vehicle is one of those situations where assessing threat can be pretty hard. IT's very much in line with someone kicking in your front door. I'd have a hard time jsut assuming the person is there to try and give me an ass kicking.
 

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I am certain that it varies from state to state, however in Florida:



A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:



Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;

Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse



Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.



Summary:

1. Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument, even if it isn't loaded or you never intend to use it.



2. The amount of force that you use to defend yourself must not be excessive under the circumstances.



Never use deadly force in self-defense unless you are afraid that if you don't, you will be killed or seriously injured;Verbal threats never justify your use of deadly force; If you think someone has a weapon and will use it unless you kill him, be sure you are right and are not overreacting to the situation.
 

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haha, I just voted (forgot to) and I'm the one that said no?!?!?!? That's crazy. These guys met at the gym... They should've been able to get out of this unless I'm missing something about the situation. A lot of us keep saying no in their posts, why the votes for yes?

I agree that I'd probably be afraid for my life too. I also don't go to the gym, too much time spent at the range...
 
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