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ok so the experts (i saw on tv like ayoob) say that it's a bad idea, they reccommend to have a seperate light source. reason being not everything you shine the light at you wanna point your gun at. to me i don't understand, in my house if someone broke in then anywhere i point my light i also want my gun pointed there also. my tv or walls don't mind if i point my gun at them, well atleast they havn't complained yet.
 

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This argument has been around for a long time. I use and like a weapon mounted light. But always have a back up. These lights do take punishment and could fail. Also a back up can give you the ability to look at and hold one person at gun point and look into a dark area you may be exposed to with the hand held light.

The other argument is if all I have is a weapon mounted light and you need to check on the kids in bed when the bump in the night happend you would point your gun at your kids. This can be avoided with a handheld light or just pointing at the ceiling and bouncing the light of of it.

I must give the separate light argument credit because the bad gun handling I have seen over the years. I know you may think if he is in my house so what If is point a gun at him. NOt so easy. I have responded to drunks who meaning no harm went to the wrong house and opened an unlocked door and went in. The owner thought it was locked. The drunk was so drunk he could not understand orders or that he was in the wrong place. The bad gun handling comes into play when you under the stress of the BREAK IN don't realize you have put your finger on the trigger. The drunk makes a sudden movement you flinch after your hand is already stressing and accidently shoot him. This is a bad shoot and may very well get you in very hot water. With a off the gun light you can keep the gun in a safer direction.

Like a say I use and gun mounted light at home, on duty and on SWAT but a high level of care must be taken with this set up.

CHECK 360

David Bowie
 

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yobos4vr said:
ok so the experts (i saw on tv like ayoob) say that it's a bad idea,
Depends on which "experts" you listen to. I take everything Ayoob says with a grain (or several) of salt. There are numerous benefits to having a weapon-mounted light which outweigh the often cited disadvanatges. With that being said, the weapon-mounted light shouldn't be the only light you have. One should always have at least one handheld light on you (think the concept of "Two is one, one is none").
 

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Whatever light you choose, it will do you little good unless you practice shooting in the dark. It's a whole new ballgame because muzzle flash in a dark room can be a bit unnerving. I personally prefer a handheld light because it can be held out away from the body and offers the bad guy less of a target to shoot at. Using a light in a dark environment, combined with muzzle flash and a lot of powder smoke is challenge.....try it.
 

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Here is some more info. In all the various night matches that I have been to and SOed at, the shooters with weapon mounted lights are so much more accurate and faster that we put them in a seperate catagory than the other shooters. There is no comparison to the shooters using Harries, Rodgers, chin mount or any of the other off weapon styles. You will be faster and more accurate with a weapon light.



But, as stated before, you must learn to illuminate and ID your targets without covering them with the muzzle. A secondary flashlight is a must.



Gringop
 
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I chose to have an underbarrel light. So what if I paint somebody when I shine the light on him? Just because he's painted doesn't mean I'm going to shoot him.
 

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Pointing a weapon at anyone in most States is considered aggravated assault, whether you shoot or not. Saying "Sorry" won't keep you out of jail.
 
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Not if he's in my house. And I'd rather take the jail than die due to using a less tactical method of holding a light in my other hand.
 

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Just to add my two cents and to echo what others have said. If you run a gun mounted light, you must have a hand held light back up. An old edition of SWAT Magazine had an excellent article written by Pat Rodgers concerning just this topic. And before someone says it, I take articles written in the gun mags with a large grain of salt, but Rodgers' articles are pretty on the money and I reccomend them to anyone who is a student of the gun.



I am a fan of weapon mounted lights in the LEO circles but had a come apart when I saw a fellow SWAT officer use the mounted light on a M4 to illuminate the handcuffs on a bad guy so another officer could take them off. Yes one officer was muzzling another officer and a bad guy (who wasn't much of a bad guy if your taking the cuffs off) to provide light to remove handcuffs. Even as a junior member of the team, I knew better then that and so did the boss who addressed this issue. That guy isn't currently on the team (got removed for another incident as if that wasn't enough)and this incident was years ago. Department wide even if you are running a weapon light, you must still have a hand held light.



If you think that the above example is an isolated incident, I was watching Fox News after the London Subway Bombings. The story was about the increased subway security in New York. The video showed members of ESU searching a subway car with passengers. Nothing active was going on, just a security sweep of the subway car. One ESU cop with an M4 pointed his weapon and light at every passenger and used the light to look under the seats (covering the passengers feet and legs). It was sloppy.



If I veered from the orignal intent of this post, I appoligize, but if you run a weapon light, have a back up and train with them both. Not all things should have a weapon pointed at it.
 

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Arizona Smithshooter said:
Pointing a weapon at anyone in most States is considered aggravated assault, whether you shoot or not. Saying "Sorry" won't keep you out of jail.


If you are in a a potentially lethal force encounter, the chances of you being charged with an "assault by pointing a gun" type offense are probably going to be pretty rare. I know around here they are.
 

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Not that I've ever been in this kind of situation, but I would think by using a rail mounted light, you're basically saying, " Here I am", to anyone else, and basically putting a big bullseye on yourself. JMO
 

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SteveK said:
Not that I've ever been in this kind of situation, but I would think by using a rail mounted light, you're basically saying, " Here I am", to anyone else, and basically putting a big bullseye on yourself. JMO


One of the most common misconceptions that is corrected through actual training. While the light can be a target indicator, this is lessen by not leaving the light on continously (unless the situation dictates).
 

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My number 1 reason for having a weapon mounted light on a pistol is it helps tame muzzle flip. (not that the M&P has much)



number 2 it's a back up to my hand held light.



I don't use a weapon mounted light for CCW. I use them only for around the house and at the range.

I use a hand held light for searching. the weapon light is a backup and/or for IDing a bad guy right before lead starts flying.
 

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I have a weapon light on my HD pistol (an M&P40) and have for several years now (it used to be on a CZ-40P). I also have a 3D cell Maglite with upgraded bulb handy. If I awake to an intruder already close by I only have to grab the gun and I can illuminate/identify the target. I can`t speak for all weapon mounted lights but my M3 illuminates the whole room. There`s no need to point the gun directly at something to clearly identify it,shining the light on the floor or ceiling works nicely. It leaves one hand free to open doors,switch lights on etc. I`m not that worried about the light making me a target. If I use it to illuminate the area any light will show them where I am. If I shine it right at them 60 lumens is absolutely blinding especially to eyes dialated from low light.

If I have the time and inclination I can grab the Maglite and use that as a primary light and impact weapon too. A weapon light is just another tool in the box. MadMarcus[/i]
 

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This debate, much like the caliber debate, will be a never ending one
In all honesty there is NO one way that is perfect for everyone. The choice you make wrt having a weapon mounted light or using only a hand held should be based on your situational circumstances. In my mind these should include, but are not limited to:

1. Laws in your state, county, city...

2. Personal situation i.e do you have kids, spouse that works a different shift or anything that could lead to a friendly making the bump in the night.

3. Probably the most important in TRAINING. With this I dont mean reading an article, book or watching a video, but actually doing training.



I consider having a weapon mounted light to be an advanced skill that people with no training should not use. You need to learn how to bounce light around the room so that you can see the "threat", not blind yourself (very important) and not cover the "threat" with your muzzle. If you are not able to do the training, youre safer using only a handheld. Violating one of the 4 rules in any situation is a BAD thing and if youre not properly trained it is VERY easy to simply point the muzzle at your preceived threat. Once you do this things can get VERY bad VERY quick.



You need to be able to balance speed with safety. In a competition speed is essential, but making a mistake only leads to a DQ. Making a mistake in life could lead to jail, or even worse living with the knowledge that you killed your wife, child...



i guess the jist is that we should use the tools that are appropriate to our skill level and stretch those skills on the range not the home.
 
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I don't see why it's all that bad to point a gun at a friendly for a brief moment for identifying purposes when your finger is straight and off the trigger. It's not like your gun will shoot by itself at that moment in time.
 

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Well, I would suggest the next time you see a police officer you ask him that question. The laws are very specific, and although they may vary a bit from State to State, most treat it as an assault. CCW classes cover that topic in detail, at least here in Arizona.
 

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Arizona Smithshooter said:
Well, I would suggest the next time you see a police officer you ask him that question. The laws are very specific, and although they may vary a bit from State to State, most treat it as an assault. CCW classes cover that topic in detail, at least here in Arizona.


See my post addrressing above addressing this. In my experience, you stand a better chance of getting struck by lightning than getting charged with an assault by pointing a gun offense.
 

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Eddo36 said:
I don't see why it's all that bad to point a gun at a friendly for a brief moment for identifying purposes when your finger is straight and off the trigger. It's not like your gun will shoot by itself at that moment in time.


Predominantly because Mr. Murphy happens to be very, and I mean VERY, good at showing his nasty head at the most inopportune times. Like when youre pointing that gun of yours at your wife and not the serial, cannibal rapist you think you have cornered.



Reflex reaction unders stress can be a very funny thing, and before you know it you can have your finger on the trigger and be pulling it without so much as blinking an eye. There is a very valid reason for having the 4 rules considered as gospel and it has little to do with how cool they sound when chanting




Pointing a gun at anything, especially people, you dont want to kill, will regret killing... is ALWAYS a bad idea. This is a universal constant and not open to interpretation. Having a weapon mounted light is a good thing, so long as you are capable of using it in a safe manner. If in using it you are violating the basic rules of safety and needlessly endangering those around you it is a bad thing and should not be used until proper training can be completed.
 
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