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Discussion Starter #1
Took my new 45 out yesterday and put 50 rounds thru it. Had the first five casings bounce off my hat, adjusted my grip and took a few deep breaths to work thru the thrill of a new gun and it performed flawlessly from then on. First group of five were low and right about 3" off center , grouped about 4". All rounds were at 15 yards. This was the same group I had the cases coming back at me. After that I was hitting groups within the 4" ring pretty much the rest of the time. I am using the small grip strap and the "weaver" stance and grip. I am thinking of playing with the modernized Isoscheles (sp?) stance, anybody care to discuss pros and cons? I used Winchester white box ammo. Would have shot more but it was brutal hot. Guess it was good practice with sweat running in my eyes (even with the hat!).



Also put 50 rounds thru my G36 while I was at it. Slide stop was not catching on the last round. Haven't had that problem before. Gun was clean as a whistle and I think my technique was good, so I am not sure what the deal is with that. Maybe it's time to trade up to a S&W carry? Any recommendations? Yea, that's what I can tell the wife...carry weapon is acting up, time to trade it in...



Overall a great day with a great pistol...

tsix 8)
 

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Glad to hear you enjoyed your MP.



I'd like to entertain your Isosceles -vs- Weaver/modified Weaver comment.



I used to shoot from a modified Weaver stance and was a decent shot. I went through the police academy and started shooting from an Isosceles stance and found out that I'm a MUCH better shot than I thought I was...




The problem I had shooting from a modified Weaver stance was that I was moving my eye to my weapon instead of bringing my weapon to a natural point of aim. Usually what happened is I would tilt my head to the right to acquire a good sight picture and all of my shots would be off left.



After a bit of discussion with an instructor I decided to try the Isosceles.



The Isosceles gave me a better sight picture and I felt as though I had more control over the weapon. I went from shooting 2-3" groups 3-4" outside of "ideal" target area to 2-3" groups dead center in the head.



Give the Isosceles a try...I really think you'll like it better than a weaver/mod-weaver stance. Oh, and dont forget to post a follow up...I'm curious to hear what ya think.



-J
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the feedback F-15 (is this in reference to the jet?). I have been shooting the Weaver stance since my Dad taught me as a pup. Isosceles makes some sense to me when I read the arguments and dry fire/practice does seem more natural. Going to give it a try this weekend (if I can sneak out for a few hours...). Will let you know how it goes. Bought a big box (250) of UMC from wally world, it's burning a hole in my bag...
 

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F15-Loader said:
The problem I had shooting from a modified Weaver stance was that I was moving my eye to my weapon instead of bringing my weapon to a natural point of aim. Usually what happened is I would tilt my head to the right to acquire a good sight picture and all of my shots would be off left.
There's Weaver and Isosceles, and what you were doing I like to call...the Horatio. :wink:



 

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LMAO!! Thats exactly it! Wow, when ya see it for yourself it sure looks funny!!



And yes, tsix, my handle is a reference to the aircraft. I loaded B-52's at Minot AFB from 92-95 and then went to Elmendorf AFB in Alaska and loaded F-15 C's and D's for about 3 yrs before got a job flying a desk for another 4 yrs.



Anyway, try out the Isosceles. I think you'll like it and I think you'll shoot much more accurately.



-J
 

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difficulty with both stance

I have to wear an eye glasses and when I try to aim at the target, I have to lift up my head to look at the sight pistures. Is there a better way of shooting with eye glasses.
 
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The Horatio look noted above is typical of a person who is cross eyed dominate, i.e. a right handed shooter who's primary or dominate eye is his/her's left.



That said the isometric muscle resistence allowed by the isoscles method provides for strong base and allows for an even distribution of recoil to both arms and upper body mass.
 

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Rundel said:
The Horatio look noted above is typical of a person who is cross eyed dominate, i.e. a right handed shooter who's primary or dominate eye is his/her's left.


Could be but in my case I just had a funky habit of moving my head to the sights.



-J
 

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I used to do this in a Weaver style stance also. It's hard to break an old habit, especially when you didn't realize you did it for 4 years




Still, in Isosceles stance I have a tendency to dip my head, which drops your shots low. I make it a deliberate action to correct myself whenever I catch this. If I can break these habits, I think I will shoot very strongly in either/or.



Something my old Shihan (master karate instructor) used to say, which he got from Okinawa:

Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect..



If you practice like crap, you'll end up like crap, so give it 110% all of the time!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: difficulty with both stance

dissatat said:
I have to wear an eye glasses and when I try to aim at the target, I have to lift up my head to look at the sight pistures. Is there a better way of shooting with eye glasses.


Sorry, can't recommend anything (I am old enough to need reading glasses, but can still get a good site pic). Maybe crimson Trace laser? I am afraid that is where I am headed in the next few years. I realize you have to be aware that the laser is not perfect, but it may be better than a very fuzzy site /target.



tsix
 

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Onuma said:
I used to do this in a Weaver style stance also. It's hard to break an old habit, especially when you didn't realize you did it for 4 years




Still, in Isosceles stance I have a tendency to dip my head, which drops your shots low.
Its something that is pretty common regardless of stance. We have a tendency to lower our head to the sights instead of raising the sights up to our normal line of sight.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Another 150 rounds perfect...almost

Went to an indoor range today...much better than being outside! Put another 150 rounds thru the 45. Had one fail to feed but it was the first round putting a new magazine in. I am positive I didn't let the slide drop cleanly, so I can't blame the pistol for that! Happened in the first few minutes and after I settled in it was flawless. Overall, I am very happy with the M&P 45's performance.



Groups were pretty good at 15 yards, most of them within 3-4". Played with double tap some and the gun is very quick back on target. Very smooth thru all ten rounds. At 25 yards the roups opened up a little and I had a few (2) miss the silhouette by an inch or so, but overall pretty good. I blame the flyers on my crappy eye sight and the fact I was doing rapid fire at the time. Gonna hafta think about lasers for Christmas....



I was using WWB FMJ and REM JHP, both from Wally's. I even mixed a few up in a couple of the magazines, no problem feeding at all.



The Glock failed to lock back after the last round again. I had just bought a new mag so I am thinking the slide lever may be worn. That is an easy and cheap replacement so I will give that a try next. I also picked up another spring when I got the mag, but didn't have time to put it in.



Oh yea, I used the Isosceles stance the entire time today. It does seem more natural to me and I had a much easier time picking up the sites/target, although my eyes are getting bad enough now I am going to hafta do something about it. Several times after reloading the mags and starting a new round I found myself unable to find the front site for what seemed like several seconds, do you think trijicons would help?



Overall it was a great day, if you discount the fact that I sliced my finger repairing the wifes tire this morning...




t6
 
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