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Discussion Starter #1
Just received my new Guns and Ammo, while flipping through the pages i noticed that HK, Kimber, and Beretta all have new polymer guns out. All three have the removable back straps. At first everyone i talked to joked about the removable back straps, now since people see how useful it is, the copycats are coming out. Taurus even mentions the M&P back straps in their new 24/7 ads, claiming their grip is far more superior. It looks like the people at S&W were way ahead of the game in regards to this useful tool.
 

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Could this be another lawsuit??......lol Glock vs Sigma, now M&P vs everyone else?? Nice to see S&W is at the top of the food chain again!!!
:twisted:
 

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M&P is far from the fist gun to have interchangable backstraps. HK, & Walther had already gone down that road when the M&P came out. My personal opinion, is that S&W took a look at most of the other polymer guns out there and utilzed the features that people wanted:



1) Striker fired w/low bore axis like the Glock

2) Ergonomic grip w/changable backstraps and ambi controls like the Walther P99 & HK P2000



They took all of that stuff and improved up some things......
 

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Also I’m pretty sure Beretta PX4 was out before M&P…



I don’t mean it in a bad way but IMO M&P is probably the worst copy cat offender; S&W ‘borrowed’ a LOT of good features from many popular guns like Sig, Glock, Beretta and HK...
 

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Both of you are right, I was just being a butt more or less, just because of the big deal over the Sigma/Glock deal. Everyone copies eachothers ideas......Its just the way it is.



Gray_Wolf said:
Also I’m pretty sure Beretta PX4 was out before M&P…



I don’t mean it in a bad way but IMO M&P is probably the worst copy cat offender; S&W ‘borrowed’ a LOT of good features from many popular guns like Sig, Glock, Beretta and HK...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
i cant speak for the HK, and Walther is owned by Smith, but im pretty sure the M&P was before the PX4 Storm, and i know the Kimber KPD is brand new (it looks really cool by the way). I cant swear to it, but i see ads saying the "all new" PX4 in current issues of magazines. I could be wrong though. If M&P isnt the first with removale back straps, then who was. Just the amateur historian in me wanting to know. Also the HK P30 looks an awful lot like a M&P to me.
 

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1911 was the 1st w/changable backstaps like Yukon said....you could adjust the fit with either a flat or arched mainspring housing. After that, I would venture to say the Walther P99 & SigPro where the 2nd, followed by the SW clone of P99 and HK P2000......then the M&P came along. Now Beretta has the PX4 and HK will continue to offer that function on the P30. As for the P30 and M&P looking alike.....I'd say yeah if you're referring to them both being black and polymer. The P30 is an improvement to HK's P2000 line which was in improvement upon the USP compacts....all of which were out well before the M&P. The P30 will actually have a grip frame that is fully user adjustable front and back....which will be an industry first if I'm not mistaken.
 

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1911 was doing it first, but not necesarily by design.

The walther p99 was the next one i saw do it, even from a press side.

Then sig pro.

Then hk2000.



No idea where the SW99 falls in there, but it is really just a walther design that has been altered cosmetically.



PX4 had publicly gropable samples of the PX4 out before the M&P, but you couyld go out and buy the M&P in a store first. PX4 production was basically delayed pending a PD order (dunno if they got it or changed their mind about waiting, but that was the stated reason for a delay).



Which was designed first, who knows.



It's a genuinely meaningful feature for any organization that has to issue weapons to people of variable size. So i think it is here to stay, and who did it first is a moot point. It's about who does it well. M&P definitely does it well as it is VERY easy to change it out and cheap to replace.



Not to mention if the grip strap goes missing, the M&P still works.
 

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Actually, the new HK P30 raises the bar a bit by providing you with interchangeable back straps AND both sides as well - all independently. So you can mix-and match to a finer grain than any of the previously available firearms.



Take this with a grain of salt, as it came from the HKPRO forum, but a guy there who lives in Europe said the first gun shop that got a P30 in said something like "The S&W M&P held the ergonomics crown for awhile, but it has been displaced by the P30 now".



But, competition and oneupmanship between companies is a GOOD thing. Pushes companies to be innovative and come out with new stuff instead of stagnating with the same old models. Which gives us more excuses to buy more guns and that is always a good thing.
 

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snscott said:
a guy there who lives in Europe said the first gun shop that got a P30 in said something like "The S&W M&P held the ergonomics crown for awhile, but it has been displaced by the P30 now".
I remember that comment as well and I think it is likely accurate. Everyone is different, and because the P30 gives more customizable options you would think it will be better for a wider range of people who can find a configuration that works for them.



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"Walther is owned by Smith"....



I don't think this is correct. Smith is the importer of some Walther products (totally German made) and on other pistols, Smith manufacturers some components and completes the final assembly using Walther (German) manufactured components. I think Smith handles the USA warranty for Walther as well.
 
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