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Last week my friend not knowing much about guns says he wants to buy a new gun and asks my opinion. I told him I hear that H&Ks are the best although I dont own one. I told him other options are Glock, SIG, Walther, Kahr.





I didnt put M&P on the list because I didnt know much about them even though I have a M&P AR-15T that I love. Honestly, I didnt even think to bring M&P up and I didnt know about this forum.



So we go to the gun store, he says hes buying the H&K (yes they are overpriced) and I tell him I read those forums and rarley do you see a problem with a gun, I dont think he can go wrong.



He gets there and this guy kindly shows him the H&K along with some of the others I mentioned. He looks at them all and tells the man behind the counter He likes the H&K P2000 the best after seeing all the guns we asked for and wants to buy it.



The guy behind the counter says, but you havnt seen the M&P yet. Pulls out the gun and just SELLS THE CRAP OUT OF IT. Heck, I was sold on one and wanted to buy one right there! The gun looks great, feels great and sounds like its built great.



He asks me, I just said I dont know much about them but I do have the AR and its great. The guy knew so much about this gun and I buy guns all the time at this shop so I asked him, are you new? He said no, I work for S&W here for the sale. Ah ha, now it makes sense. Still, he did a great job selling the gun.



Make a long story short, he buys the M&P. Takes it to the range puts 150 rounds through it. Loves the gun. I havnt shot it yet. Late last week, I found these forums and seen all the problems these guns were having because I was going to buy one too. I showed him and he said oh well, mine is fine.



I go buy a HKP2000 friday and we all go shoot with like 6 friends yesterday. Shooting ARs, AKs and lots of hand guns.



I shoot his M&P, wow, the gun is right on, the trigger has some grinding right before the break but didnt affect my shooting. I Liked the trigger much better than the glocks out there. Heck I loved the trigger over everything except my HK. The gun was comfortable and shot very good and straight.





I have 500 rounds for my HK and I and everyone pumps them through, Very accurate for everyone. I tell my friend who has the M&P that u really want 500 rounds through it before you carry the gun just to make sure so he stops shooting the AKs and ARs and starts pumping rounds through his M&P 9mm



150 rounds, 9 failure to feeds, 2 failure to ejects. Needless to say, hes pissed as I would be. My HK, the gun he went to buy runs flawless for everyone while his MP jams for everyone that shoots it. Its too bad because it really is a fine pistol and shoots VERY nice. I hope S&W fixes it up and hell be good to go.



On a side note. My kel-tec PF-9 started its jamming crap again. Already been to the factory 2 times and now its going again. Had failure to feeds and light primer strikes. I would not recommend the PF-9 to anyone right now with the problems its having.
 

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Every maker has their share of problems, especially a new line. I'm on M&P #3 and haven't had any problems. Those that have problems are more vocal about it so it seems like there are alot of problems.
 

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+1 on the M&P with zero problems! You sure did sell your HKP2000 though
Fine gun, but I will still to my M&P!!!



bigkracka said:
Every maker has their share of problems, especially a new line. I'm on M&P #3 and haven't had any problems. Those that have problems are more vocal about it so it seems like there are alot of problems.
 

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What type of ammo was he using? The only time I've had fail to feeds is on my 40cal handloads that may be at the lower end of the charge (average can be +/- 1 grain) or have an OAL of longer than 1.130". I wouldn't even have that problem if I was using something other than plated flat-points. I've used CCI Blazer and Winchester white box in mine and have had no feed issues at all, though my counts on those have been much less than handloads.



Also, even a slight limp-wrist can cause an FTE if using weaker ammo. Have your friend tighten his supporting hand grip a bit more and lock those wrists like a firm handshake. See if that fixes it. Also, some polish work on the feed ramp and chamber is easy to do. The M&P is a sound platform on the whole, there are just a few that get by. Smith will make it right.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I agree gun makers can run into problems making a new gun. I do have mixed feelings about it though because you will notice some makers not having those problems like HK, Sig, GLock to name a few.





For instance, I have the 40th PF-9 make in the world and I have had nothing but problems. The only difference is the PF-9 sucks all around as a gun other than its size.



The M&P has a huge upside to it so I hope they fix it and maybe I'll pick one up later down the road.





Ammo was WWW from wally world. It jammed on several different people including me. Its not due to limp wristing. Heck it even happen from a rest.



I purposly limp wristed my HK for about 50 rounds, right handed and left handed, barley holding the gun and not a single failure. While I know limp wristing can cause jams I dont expec that to happen on the upper end guns. Limp wrist my PF-9 though and it will jam every single time even when its working correct.
 

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Sorry to here about the malfunctions for your buddy but I think they are rare. My M&P 9 fs goes through 50rds a day just about every day, has been through 5 training classes and a sh*tload of dry fire. I lost count of how many rounds through the pistol, I would guess about 6500 so far, and I have had exactly 0 malfunctions of any kind. Usually practice with rem UMC and about 20-40 rounds of 124gr gold dots a month. I'm thinking this pistol is indestructable.
 

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parks71 said:
Ammo was WWW from wally world. It jammed on several different people including me. Its not due to limp wristing. Heck it even happen from a rest.


I just broke 3K rounds thru my MP9. 90% of those rounds were WWW from Wally World. 0 failures of any kind.



Just the luck of the draw (no pun intended) for your friend.



The Guinea
 

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This has been touched on in this forum previously, but it bears another mention. People tend to scream loudest when they are unhappy, so you get a misleading indication of how things really are. In other words, if you buy a lemon, you tell 10 people; buy one without issues, you tell three. Of course, when it's *your* lemon, it's cold comfort that the problem really isn't that bad.



The cycle of producing/manufacturing things is interesting. New product tends to have flaws which do not show themselves until ma y users get hold of a product; then those flaws get addressed and the product improves. Then the manufacturer will start in with (typically misguided) "upgrades" and the process starts again.



Smith ought to be getting to a point where the lemons are minimal. I've said all along, that if they will tweak the M&P and support the product the Glock supports their's they are going to take major amounts of the market away from Glock. But Smith has to step up with customer service in the instances where the QC was not up to standard.



Try a different, quality ammo, and makes sure that one particular mag isn't the problem and let us know how it goes. When the M&P is running properly, it is a fine experience. You have to get into 1911-world (IMNSHO) to do better.



PS. Please do not interpret any of the above as apologizing for or defending S&W. When you plunk down your $$ for a pistol, it ought to work. If it doesn't work, the factory should make it right, period.
 

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Bloodnut said:
This has been touched on in this forum previously, but it bears another mention. People tend to scream loudest ...


EXACTLY! Brings back memories of the "silent majority".




--

Mike
 

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I'm sorry about your friends trouble. I have my M&P9 with 1600 rounds with no problems what so ever.I've used Federal, CCI Aluminum ammos 115 gr. and lately I've been using 115 gr. reloads without any malfunctions.
Tell your friend to send it back to S&W and they will make it right.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I know exactly what u mean when something fails u tell 10 people. I have a S&W AR15T and it has been flawless so far. However, I read a lot of gun forums, glock, HK, SIG, now MP, Keltec, XD and to be honest with you, you wont find no where NEAR the complaint/failures on those forums as you are on these as of now which tells me, they have a problem with the guns.



Other than Keltec, which I read the PF-9 section, the forums are full of stuff like this forum and from owning that pistol I understand where its coming from.





Does that mean people dont have M&Ps that are just fine? I'm sure there are but they need to improve the consistancy of the gun. Your right about one thing, when the gun was working, it was one fine pistol. I have a XD and I thought the MP shot much better and thats saying a lot because the XD is a fine pistol.





Anyway my purpose of this post was to let people know, this is one fine pistol but IMO all the kinks arent worked out. It jammed on different mags so its the gun, not the mag I would think. When these boards clear out with problems, I will add one to my collection to match my AR-15.
 

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Just put 100 + rounds through my M&P today! In my back yard range, and have still not had one problem. I shoot every weekend as much as I can. I think one must go off their own personal experiences to be truly accurate on an opinion of a gun or problem. We cant always listen to our freinds.
 

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My M&P 9 with a great Burwell trigger job has fired several cases of ammo with "O" problems.

A partial list of ammo fired: Blazer 115 & 147,Black Talon 147,Golden Saber 147,Lawman 147,Super X 147,WWB 115 & 147 as well as reloads in 124 & 147. On my list to try: HST,Ranger "T", and Gold Dot.
 

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My M&P has about 1200 rounds of various factory and re loaded ammo through it without a single malfunction.



It's now my duty weapon.



 

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parks71 said:
....you will notice some makers not having those problems like HK, Sig, GLock to name a few.
Not sure where you've been, but cruise over to Sigforum and read up on cracked frames, slides and failures to feed. Sig's customer service is the pits right now as well. Glocks have had cracked frames, frame rails, breechface failures, etc. This is not exclusive to Smith.
 

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well all gun lines have problems to

some extent.. If you read enough forums you'll find the issue's.. Today at our USPSA match in my squad alone there were three M&P 9's. I know of at least 5 other folks at the match that have them and plan to shoot them in competition for USPSA production.



I have 2k rounds through mine, mostly my reloaded ammo and except for when a mag got dirty and didn't feed.. gun has run great.



I'd have to argue about the nowhere NEAR statement.. Glocktalk features problems all the time. I don't read the Sig or H&K forums as i don't own one, though i've seen a few choke at matches.



Let's be honest.. your comparing three gun lines that have been out in production for what? 20? 30 years or more? to a Frankly NEW gun line... i'd say the others have the edge on having had time to get the bugs worked out.. S&W is doing a great job for the price of the gun in my opinion.



I don't doubt your friend is upset, have him get the problem diagnosed and fixed through S&W's service department and i'm sure he will end up a happy camper.



Good luck.



Mouse.
 

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madecov said:
My M&P has about 1200 rounds of various factory and re loaded ammo through it without a single malfunction.



It's now my duty weapon.


just a question i've always had for any LEO...



how the heck do you sit down with all that crap on your belt?
 

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micah said:
just a question i've always had for any LEO...



how the heck do you sit down with all that crap on your belt?


Or run for that matter?



The Guinea
 

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guinea said:
[quote name='micah']



just a question i've always had for any LEO...



how the heck do you sit down with all that crap on your belt?


Or run for that matter?



The Guinea[/quote]





Or keep your pants pulled up?
 
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