[bb21]

Just a couple of questions about the M&P. I am looking into purchasing an M&P, but haven't quite figured out which one so I have a few questions. I have heard on other forums people say the M&P is very pleasant to shoot and the recoil seems tame, particularly with the .40SW. Also I have small hands and would probably prefer the small backstrap so those who use it please give your insight.

I am not real familiar with .40 as far as recoil goes, but I own 9's and a XD45compact. How does it compare with all steel .40 recoil?

M&P45 vs. XD45?

M&P40 vs. M&P45?

For those who own the .40 and .45 which do you prefer and why?

What don't you like about your M&P?

I understand that your answers will be subjective, so back it up. I don't need to be sold on the M&P, I think I already am, I am just trying to get the best comparison I can.

Thanks for your help!

 

[G56]

I can't compare the recoil with a steel framed 40, since all the 40's I've personally shot are polymer framed, the recoil is noticeably sharper than a 9mm, that's about the best guesstimate I can give you.



I haven't even seen a M&P 45 in person, only photos.



I have the M&P 40 and really like it, I've always thought the 40 was a great compromise, the power of a 45 in a smaller frame, and it holds more ammo as compared to a 1911, as well as being smaller and lighter.



The trigger isn't the best thing out there, but I like the idea because of the inherent safety of that type of action, the trigger does improve with use and Dan Burrell can work wonders with it, one of these days I'll be sending mine in for a trigger job.

 

[Steelshooter]

.40 has a sharp snappy recoil as does even 9mm especially if it is +P or +P+. .45 is more of a push back recoil. Recoil in general is very muted on every M&P I have shot. I think the beavertail is instrumental in spreading out recoil as is the low bore axis and highly ergonomic grip. I tend to agree that .40 is the best of all worlds given its high round count and velocity which allows for excellent hollowpoint expansion. I have shot a lot of .40 in Glocks but never really enjoyed it because of the recoil. .40 recoil in M&P is easy to handle. XD's have a higher bore axis than M&P or Glock and .40 recoil is much more noticeable in XD's as a result. Like just about everyone else I have found that after a few hundred rounds the M&P trigger smooths out considerably and reset is also improved. Due to it's size and round characteristics I do think the .40 M&P is a better all around choice than the .45 and I have lot's of .45's. Ammo is also cheaper. All steel .40 recoil is very snappy and harsh and I would avoid it if at all possible. I use the large backstrap so i can't help you there. You don't mention sights but the Novak sights on the M&P are about the best you can get in my opinion. When you look at M&P .45s look carefully. I have seen many with poor finishes and awful triggers. I think they are getting them straightened out now because they new ones I am seeing are starting to look better but they seem to have rushed the first ones out. Check the .45 forum here to find out more about the .40s in general. The .45 does of course have a bigger grip so make sure it works for you even with the small backstrap if you have small hands.

 

[coltman1985]

Recoil shouldn't really be that much of a concern. All guns recoil, anyone and anysize can learn to shoot them all effectively. Nothing can overcome "perceived" recoil other then a good stance/grip and lots of practice.



That said, if you want the gun for protection, go bigger. If you want it for competition, go smaller caliber. What are your intentions with this firearm?

 

[Chayak]

If you shoot an XD45 already then don't even worry about the recoil of a .40S&W. Your choice of pistol is dependant on your needs for it. If you're shooting USPSA stock then go with a 9mm because ammo is cheaper and there is no major scoring in stock. USPSA above stock level tends to be .40S&W and 45ACP to get the major scoring category. Then there are the .38 supers but there's no M&Ps chambered for it so it's a moot point.



If you want a pistol for home defense or carry I personally would go with a 357sig, .40S&W, or 45ACP though if you are comfortable with 9mm there really isn't any reason not to get one as modern JHPs bring up it's performance quite a bit, just not enough for me to carry one.



I own an XD45 and an XD40SC and like both but I had the chance to shoot a 9mm M&P demo pistol and loved it. I'm more inclined to buy the M&P45 as I own a few 1911s and the XD45 and have a few thousand rounds availible as opposed to my 40S&W of only a few hundred.



If I had to choose and the M&P45 felt like it's 9mm sibling I'd go with the M&P over the XD45 in a heartbeat. I'll make my final decision though after I have one and cycle 10000 rounds or so through it like I have my XD45 shooting stock USPSA. The 10 round capacity of the M&P45 is the only thing I can say against it though I've heard they do have a 14 round magazine in the works which will make me very happy.



My only gripe about the M&P is the magazine drop saftey. I know it's intended purpose is saftey and to disable your weapon by dropping the mag if someone is about to take it from you but it also means I'm incapable of firing during a tactical reload and it leaves someone unprotected during the time they drop the partial magazine and insert a fresh one. It's something that I'm not going to have on my personal pistol.

 

[choochboost]

My only gripe about the M&P is the magazine drop saftey.

It's optional.

 

[Chayak]

[quote name='Chayak']My only gripe about the M&P is the magazine drop saftey.

It's optional.[/quote]



That I'm aware of which is why I mentioned I'm not going to get it on my pistol

 

[Steelshooter]

I understand your gripe but that "tactical reload" business they promote in gun games is about the silliest thing I ever heard of.

My only gripe about the M&P is the magazine drop saftey. I know it's intended purpose is saftey and to disable your weapon by dropping the mag if someone is about to take it from you but it also means I'm incapable of firing during a tactical reload and it leaves someone unprotected during the time they drop the partial magazine and insert a fresh one. It's something that I'm not going to have on my personal pistol.

 

[Chayak]

It has nothing to do with gun games it's how I was trained. If you engage a target and there is a possibility of further engagements it's standard procedure to execute tactical reloads and have full magazines. It seems to be common sense to me as I'd prefer a full magazine than a partial one if the shooting starts again, though in that kind of situation you'd have someone covering you as you reloaded.



I'm not here to debate tactics or boast of training which all amounts to a hill of beans on the internet. I'm just a grunt in the scheme of things and people much better at it and experienced than I trained me to do it that way. I'm inclined to believe them over anything I read on the net as they're the real deal that I can verify unlike someone you see on a message board.



You'll have to forgive me but it's how I was trained so I tend to evaluate things in that context. If it seems silly to you then by all means don’t do it, but I would get critiqued for it if I didn’t in training.

I understand your gripe but that "tactical reload" business they promote in gun games is about the silliest thing I ever heard of.



[quote name='Chayak']

My only gripe about the M&P is the magazine drop saftey. I know it's intended purpose is saftey and to disable your weapon by dropping the mag if someone is about to take it from you but it also means I'm incapable of firing during a tactical reload and it leaves someone unprotected during the time they drop the partial magazine and insert a fresh one. It's something that I'm not going to have on my personal pistol.

[/quote]

 

[Steelshooter]

Somehow in 20+ years in the Marines and innumerable training course in and outside of the military I missed the need for a "tactical reload". I've only seen it in gun games. Is that an LEO thing also?

 

[Chayak]

Somehow in 20+ years in the Marines and innumerable training course in and outside of the military I missed the need for a "tactical reload". I've only seen it in gun games. Is that an LEO thing also?

It was part of the SSEF (ship security engagement force) course that I took when I was on a sub in Pearl Harbor. I've heard they've changed it yet again as well as the acronym. It's the Navy so who knows. I've tried to get the updated course as they do the force on force on one of the decom ships at Bangor as it would probably be a lot of fun.

 

[Steelshooter]

Interesting. Times change. When I was in they still had Marines guarding the nuke subs with M-14's at Pearl Harbor. So it was awhile ago. I don't think there is even a Marine barracks there anymore.

 

[Chayak]

Yes they do. I got curious and called up the guys who do the training here in Bangor



The current training says not to do tactical reloads because too many people apparently failed to sufficiently seat the fresh magazine while trying to retain the partial one in their hand causing FTF and dropped magazines.



If your magazine is nearly empty drop it and reload with a fresh one without attempting to retain the old one in hand. If for whatever reason you have to retain a magazine you remove and stow it before reloading with a fresh one.



The military is outsourcing a lot of security training now (and to the lowest bidder :? ) and with all the new 'systems' that come and go it's not surprising how quickly things change.

 

[czgunner]

The classes I've taken have mentioned the tactical reload, and it has been integrated into the weapons training I received in the Army...especially when we were down range.

BUT......If you are tactical reloading, are you really going to try to fire with the mag out? The other thing I have been trained to do is to call reloading to your battle buddy and drop into cover. Trying to reload while shooting the round in the chamber sounds paramount to suicide, but whatever.....

 

[Steelshooter]

My issue with tactical reload is that it is very difficult to accomplish when under stress and distracts you when you need to be focused on the threat or threats. It's easier for me to drop a mag and reload a mag than maintain two in one hand by far. I would rather maintain what I've got and reload when I have to, preferably behind cover. This outsourcing of training to the lowest bidder is terrible. I very well remember my first 1911 training by a Gunnery Sgt with three tours in Vietnam as an infantryman. I can't imagine outsourcing to lowest cost bidder training compares to that. Anyway i better stop taking this thread off in another direction before I get spanked by a Mod. :wink:

I can get it back on track a little by mentioning the mag safety doesn't really bother me. I had my first ND ever last year with a Sig P226 with a DAK trigger and the mag out. I pulled the trigger with a round in the chamber and killed my living room rug. I couldn't believe it as I am ultra, ultra, careful with firearms but after 30 + years it finally happened to me.

 

[norfdet]

I have been training LEO's for the past 16 years and I will offer this about tactical reloads;



Yes, it is probably by and large a LEO or (perhaps) a Military thing. As far as LEO's go, usually we are alone and to have someone cover you while you are reloading would be nice but is not always available. The magazine disconnect safety is (IMHO) a MUST for LEO's these days. The magazine safety for S&W pistol has saved officers lives countless times when they were in a life and death fight for their gun. The other thing that saved them is a back-up gun but that is perhaps for a different discussion.



The fact that you can't shoot your weapon during a tactical or speed reload is really a non-issue since the tactical reload should only be performed when there is a lull in the action and preferably from behind cover. The 3 second (or less) that you take to perform this task is almost inconsequential, if performed correctly. Keeping that partially spent magazine has also saved officer's lives as they had extra ammo (even if only a few rounds) when they needed it.



If you actually fired your weapon with the remaining round in the chamber while you were swapping out magazines, the time that it would take you to reload the weapon at that point is probably 2X's as long as the tactical reload would take assuming that the gun did not stove pipe because there was no magazine in it or some other malfunction happened, etc.



As for me, I prefer the safety others don't and there are pro's and con's for each. Currently my department issues Glock's, I miss my S&W 5946. I had the opportunity to shoot the M&P 9mm the other day and I hear that there are grumblings of us looking at now buying this weapon to possibly replace the Glock's or at least as an alternative for small handed shooters. I can tell you that if the M&P pistols show up anywhere in inventory, I will be the first down there to swap out my Glock for one magazine safety equipped or not!