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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I woke up and was bored so I was just surfing around the net tonight... I always end up on the board to see what others have to say.. Whether they are good or bad..



Anyways, I have seen problems from mag drops to now cracked frames.. People saying stuff like going back to their beloved Glocks, trashing the M&P at times, etc.. Well, I came across an article on Wikipedia about Glock.. During their first production of the Glock, they had exploding pistols..



"The explosive malfunction of a firearm, dubbed a kB! (or kaBoom!) by firearms reporter Dean Speir, generally results from case failure in a cartridge. Explosive malfunctions in Glock pistols usually damage the firearm and can cause injury to the shooter.



Controversy arose over Glock's safety standards when several instances of explosive malfunction occurred in Glock pistols sold to police departments in the United States. Upon pulling the trigger, the cartridge case would rupture and cause an explosion that would tear apart the gun and sometimes send fragments into the shooter's face.



The cause of this malfunction was traced to issues with a purposely oversized (loose), and partially unsupported chamber in Glock's pistols chambered in .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 10 mm. The chamber lacks full support in the rear by the feed ramp in order to facilitate feed reliability. The lack of support in the chamber, usually combined with lead bullets, reloaded ammunition, or poor-quality factory ammunition, would cause the case to fail. The subsequent rapid expansion of gas into the chamber caused the cartridge casing to expand beyond normal specifications near the feed ramp at which time the casing would rupture, sometimes damaging the polymer frame and usually ejecting the magazine downwards out of the pistol grip." (1)



So even Glock had problems at the beginning of its first production years. No gun is perfect when it first comes out.. Problems can and do arise. I have yet to hear anything like this with the M&P and I hope that it never does happen.. The reason for this post is to inform everyone that the M&P isn't even 2 years old.. The M&P is still an infant.. It has just learned to walk relatively speaking. Glock on the other hand is on it's 3rd Generation.. It has been around the block a few times and it is showing its age..



Having worked with engineers for 6 years with 3 of those years in the Aerospace field, unforseen problems do arise. And from what I have seen with any problems that do arise with the M&P, Smith & Wesson has bent over backwards to correct the problems of the M&P or any gun they make... I love my M&P both in compact and full size.. It is the best shooting pistol I have ever fired.. I will stand behind my M&Ps and any S&W gun that is produced..



Ben



1. Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock#Explosive_malfunctions
 

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The Glock KB issue is the most common stone that is thrown at Glocks, but they have had other issues as well. But I guess that's the point...what pistol hasn't?



Speir is looked upon by some as being very biased against Glocks so his criticisms are not always received. He might be their most vocal critic.



Speaking of cracked frames, Glock was having problems with 19/23 frames earlier this year.



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Please don't let this turn into a Glock vs Our Brand of Pistol thread. There are plenty of other forums where that is the MAIN topic of discussion.



I do understand where you're coming from but some people will come and go from the M&P and that's alright. The beautiful thing about having all these different makes and models is that we have a choice and lots of them




The other thing I would caution this board about is the "Kaboom" issue. Yes Glocks do get all the press but what Dean fails to mention is that other brands kaboom as well because without a partially supported chamber semi-autos wouldn't feed reliably.



I've experienced a case rupture in my USP and we've already seen one M&P go back to S&W after it experienced one. Damage was minimal but the point is please do not start waving the Kaboom flag because we have and will see some happen here. And as the M&P gains in popularity we will probably see more than our share. We need to be educated on hows and whys so that we don't continue to feed various internet myths.



I'm constantly "reminding" the folks over on GlockTalk that Glock had growing pains the first few years as well and no mass produced mechanical devices will ever be defect free. That place is too big and too far gone to make much of a difference but if we set a good example here other mp-pistol members will follow our example (hopefully).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I agree.. I am not trying to turn this into a This vs That thread.. That is the last thing I want to happen.. That is why I posted the link about the SIG Slide issue...



I am just trying to show other forum members that the M&P is a young gun design and growing pains are going to happen.. Not to get discouraged.. So far the majority of the M&Ps on the market have functioned great.. Including mine..




I hope this clears things up on my post.. Probably clear as mud.. LOL..




Ben
 

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No problem and I didn't mean to suggest you were trying to start a debate. While we were on the subject I just used it as an opportunity to say a few things that I had on my mind.



Like you said, this is a new design and is still relatively immature when we compare it to its competitors. After all it's only about 18 months old so it's tough (and maybe some what unfair) to stack it up against something thats been around for 20 years.



The point of my post was not to 'warn' any one but to merely suggest that we try and educate the naysayers :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
m4arc said:
The point of my post was not to 'warn' any one but to merely suggest that we try and educate the naysayers :wink:


That is right.. I always felt a forum is for learning about a product.. See what problems or success others have.. Apply what is read and be on the look out for potentional problems.. If a forum becomes big enough, we can become a modivating force to an entity (manufacturer, Government, etc) to make positive changes..



Ben



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I take pride in this forum not having this VS that, even if many are brought into the conversation.



XD's have/had issues, anyone says otherwise is not with reality.

Glocks have/had issues--see above--

Smith and Wesson have/had issues--see above--

etc.



I can go on and on... this is an M&P forum, lets keep the comments polite, or the thread will be locked.



John
 

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Jester, this forum is valuable to new M&P owners like me because of the information that is exchanged. The M&P 9 that I bought three weeks ago is my first S&W product and I appreciate being able to learn about the company, the M&P product line and their customer service. I spent time on the GlockTalk forum after buying my Glock 23 a few years ago and remember having generally the same experience that I am having now reading this forum. Back then I read about Kabooms, unsupported chambers and other problems that people were supposedly having with Glocks. But I also read the comments of many satisfied Glock owners. Like most, my experience with Glock has been very favorable and my 23 has proved to be a very reliable and durable weapon.



On this forum I have read about mag drop issues, light primer strikes and such. But I have also learned that S&W has addressed most of the issues with the Rev N changes and that S&W has great customer service and takes its lifetime warranty seriously. Consequently, because of the information on this forum, I have confidence that my M&P will be reliable or will be made reliable by S&W if I encounter problems.



BTW, the M&P is the most comfortable handgun that I have ever shot. That has a lot of value, because it is now the handgun that I want to shoot during my practice sessions and I'm already more accurate with it than with my Glock.
 

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Don't forget the Glock six part product upgrade of 1992 brought on by it's failure in DEA testing.



Or the humongous Glock frame upgrade of several yrs ago after the slide rails were breaking (local deputies broke 4 of 230 new guns the first month). Or the NYPD Phase 3 malfuncions. Or the Illinois and Indiana state police, LAPD problems... Glock has changed just about every part on the pistol since it came out. Working on their 8th follower now IIRC.



Early SIGs had problems w frame cracking. Two of three endurance tested by the US govt during the XM9 trials broke under 7K rounds. They were deemed acceptable cuzz the min to pass was just 5K rounds. In 1998 the Baltimore county PD had 52 of it's 1300 SIGs crack the frames/slides...



In 2004 the DHS torture tested pistols in 9/40/357. The Glocks, S&Ws, SA/XDs, and Berettas failed. Only the SIGs and HKs passed all models in all calibers.



Then there were problems w the new SIGs and HKs in service. Guns shooting high, jamming w training ammo, firing pins breaking, slide stops popping out...



Stuff happens. To everybody. Sooner or later.



Get what you like, or flip a coin and like what you get.
 

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Now I'm really impressed!

m4arc said:
Like you said, this is a new design and is still relatively immature when we compare it to its competitors. After all it's only about 18 months old so it's tough (and maybe some what unfair) to stack it up against something thats been around for 20 years.


When I first picked up an M&Pc I loved the way it felt in my hand. I did some (maybe not as well as I thought!) research and thought that the compact version was brand new and the full size had been around a while.

If this entire line of pistols is less than 2 years old, all I can say is WOW!



M&P40c 2000+ rnds No problems to speak of!
 
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