[FastSS]

I’m not entirely convinced that the mag release is entirely at fault here. I’ve got over a thousand rounds through my pistol (1250) and I’ve never had this issue.



I also practice magazine changes fairly regularly…



I figure I’ve inserted and removed a magazine from the weapon several hundred times without issue.



Some get these problems with their first magazines.



Anyway, I’m working on a theory of how/why this might happen



If you have had this failure, please post the following:



First three characters in your serial (MPA, MPB…)

Caliber

# of rounds fired through the weapon

TYPE OF AMMO in the magazine while the weapon was failing (brand/weight)



Pictures of the magazine catch on failing weapons would be a huge plus.





Please and thanks :wink:



I've also talked to a couple of people regarding making an all steel mag catch. I've never had this problem myself so I cant determine if this is actually caused by a faulty mag catch or something else. I'd hate to invest in anything less than a good solution.

 

[APismoClam]

You are probably correct...

You are probably correct that it is not the mag catch alone which is contributing to the numerous reports of mags popping out unexpectedly.



In previous posts I have listed the main things I believe to be contributing to this issue. Aside from the issue of incorrectly manufactured mag catches, "too-easy-to-hit" high-profile mag catch buttons and a weaker-than-optimal mag catch rod spring, I believe that chief among the causal suspects is the problem of some frames being manufactured with out of spec oversized mag wells. As I reported earlier, with the slide off of each of my three M&Ps, I wiggled a normally seated magazine at the top and eyeballed the amount of free play or wiggle the magazines had. My M&P 40 compact clearly allowed the magazine to move freely about more than either my full-size 40 or compact 9. In fact, while wiggling the mag around with my finger tip and applying a small amount of downward pressure, I was able to push out the seated magazine from the top! To wit, my 40C is now back at S&W for repair because, as I'm sure you can now imagine, it consistently dropped mags during each shot fired.



I have never owned another pistol that has such an over sized mag well and allows such free movement of the top of the magazine while fully seated. I don't think there's much wrong with the mag catches per se, but the design of the mag catch absolutely requires that the magazine is held with a minimum amount of slop to prevent it from disengaging from the relatively small contact area of the mag catch metal "tooth", especially during the violent vibration and impulse of recoil.



Reinforcing my theory is that I've read where several posters on this forum have sent their pistols back to Smith several times for the same prob. and all Smith did was replace their mag catches each time, to no avail. Finally, only after a poster had Smith replace his frame did he finally see the issue resolved.



Just my 2 cents.







"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

 

[FastSS]

I was thinking that the ammo might be part of the reason



I wish I remember whos ammo it was but there were scratches on the tips of the bullets from where they had made a trip past the mag catch.



As I cycled the weapon, about 6(?) rounds into it i saw the mark on every other round for the rest of the magazine.

 

[tigs40cal]

i shoot 180s in mine and looking at the clip through the mag catch hole the rounds are right there.ive thought about that but i shot 3000k+ then mine started droping mags.just got it back from s&w with new catch.will shoot about 400 tomorrow.i think more was done because mag feels totaly different than before.the mag is tighter in well and about last inch i have to push harder than before.it feels good will find out how it works in the morning

 

[TEX]

I recently ordered a new mag catch, because I wanted one that I could reduce in size so that it would be harder to accidently activate. On mine the mag will drop with slightly less tan 1mm inward movement of the mag catch. A little to fine to suit me. At the time I ordered the new mag catch, the parts guy confirmed that they had them in stock, but then I get a letter saying that it has been back ordered. I am wondering if S&W is thinking about redesigning the mag catch and yanked the ones they had in parts stock because of the concerns and problems.

 

[YukonGlocker]

My mag catches are on backorder also.

 

[z71bill]

S&W backorder -



I ordered a recoil rod and spring - plus a bunch of other small parts - the recoil rod was on backorder - after waiting a few weeks I called and was told - they just got 600 of them in - so I waited a few more weeks - called again - was told they just got 600 of them in THAT DAY. I said wait - thats what you told me last time - the S&W guy did some checking and called me back -



Yes they did get 600 in - they were all put on "hold for production" status - which means they were reserved for making new guns and could not be shipped out to fill parts orders.



I think it is the same with mag catch.



I called S&W yesterday - I had my mag drop 2 times - I think I was hitting the mag release button and ask them if they were redesigning the catch - I was told NO redesign.



I also ask about a stronger mag catch spring - was told they did not produce one.



BTW you should NOT bend a spring (mag catch or other) to try and make it stronger - it will at first seem stronger - but will - after being used for a short time become weaker.

 

[PR1]

S&W backorder -



I ordered a recoil rod and spring - plus a bunch of other small parts - the recoil rod was on backorder - after waiting a few weeks I called and was told - they just got 600 of them in - so I waited a few more weeks - called again - was told they just got 600 of them in THAT DAY. I said wait - thats what you told me last time - the S&W guy did some checking and called me back -



Yes they did get 600 in - they were all put on "hold for production" status - which means they were reserved for making new guns and could not be shipped out to fill parts orders.



I think it is the same with mag catch.



I called S&W yesterday - I had my mag drop 2 times - I think I was hitting the mag release button and ask them if they were redesigning the catch - I was told NO redesign.



I also ask about a stronger mag catch spring - was told they did not produce one.



BTW you should NOT bend a spring (mag catch or other) to try and make it stronger - it will at first seem stronger - but will - after being used for a short time become weaker.

It's not redesigned but the mag catch that's beign used on the compact is the same one they are now installing on the fullsize if you're having a mag drop issue. It has a little "2" on it and it looks like the metal tab is a little smaller than the original one.

 

[z71bill]

It has a little "2" on it and it looks like the metal tab is a little smaller than the original one.



I did not ask them about the "2" seems like I should have been told about it if it is the fix for this problem.



Why would a smaller metal tab hold better?



It seems like a BIGGER tab would require you to push the mag release in more before the mag would drop.

 

[stg58fal]

I know for sure what was causing my mag to drop

The problem with my M&P with out a doupt was me hitting the mag catch during rapid fire. Let me state this to begin with. My grip is a very high grip with both thumbs forward. It the same grip I have used shooting Glock and various other weapons in IDPA for over four years, never had any problems. My grip as been checked by three master level IDPA compteriors and all agree my grip is not to blame, that the M&P just places your finger to close to the mag catch.



I really really like my M&P and the 10-8 sights on it, in other words I wanted to contiue to use it for IDPA and hopefully my carry weapon. I removed the mag release and sanded it down to about half it size at a slight angle. Problem fixed period, no more problems what so ever. I have fired over 500 rounds and also compteted in two matches since competeing this modification, zero problems.



Let me say this also, now when I grip the gun it is very obiviuous were my finger was laying across the mag release. However, prior to sanding down the mag release, it gave the apperance that your finger is just close to it. A high grip will lead to your finger laying slightly on the mag release. You cannot even feel it, however the slightest bumb and the mag was released.



My hands are slightly smaller than average person and I feel this also plays a role. I noticed when people with bigger hands or fat fingers their fingers would not flow into the frame as close as mine did.



Anyone having a problem with their mag being released check your grip. I know my grip is a very good grip and I was not going to change it. The main reason I would not change my grip was because I felt stongly there is not better grip to shot a pistol. The only solution is to sand down the mag release.



It is very easy to do and takes just a few minutes. Be carefull you can remove a lot of the mag release in just a few minutes. Good luck and I hope this helps someone with their problem.



Lastly no disrespect to anyone, however I don't think making the mag harder to release will fix anything. I think the only thing this will do is cause the mag to be harder to drop when you want to drop it. I feel strongly the only solution is to elimanate your finger from hitting the mag catch.

 

[texagun]

stg58fal:

Thanks for that information. It sounds, then, that the problem with the mags falling out is not a frame problem, but rather it is the size of the mag release that is causing the problem. That is good news if that is true. I'm pretty sure that I have read elsewhere that S&W has actually replaced frames for this very same problem, so the whole issue is confusing.

 

[stg58fal]

Frame problem

I don't feel that it is the size of the mag release that is causing the problem. The mag release on the M&P is the same size as it is on most any other pistol. I feel that the problem is the way the mag release flows into the frame. It causes me to lay my finger on the mag release not under the mag release. I compared it to my Glock and my finger goes under the mag release on my Glock. On the M&P due to the way the Mag release is placed in the frame my finger just barely lays on the bottom side of the mag release.



I feel that alot of people will agrue that they are not hitting the mag release becasue it is so suttle. S&W designed the mag release to be quick and not prutude from the weapon. Unfournatley, the design causes me problems. That being said it probably works for the majority of others who chose the M&P.



I also feel that some one gets a bad grip one time and it drops the mag, they do not get the same grip again for another 250 rounds. Then they go what happen to my M&P and start to look for a mechincal failure.



Lastly, I have also noticed that the M&P has the easiest mag release to bump of any pistol I have ever owned. Try to put a slide a paddle holster on with the M&P inside of it, you will hit the mag release. Being able to take half the mag release away and still being able to use it with no problems speaks for itself. It is a very quick and easy mag release.

 

[chocoboy]

Pics pls...

stg58fal, Can you pls post a pic of the (shaved) mag release?



1. shaved mag release from the frame

2. shaved mag release installed



By the way, what did you use to sand down the mag release?



Thanks in advance!

 

[stg58fal]

I do my best

I will do my best with the pictures, however the only digital camera that I have working right now is my phone. That being said I will see if I can have some photos posted soon for you.



I used 800 grit sandpaper, I wanted to remove it very slow and leave a smooth finsih. Belive me when I tell you this, it still did not take long with the 800 grit sand paper. I basicaly just land the paper flat on a table and sanded the mag release down at the angle I wanted it.



It was kind of like sharpening a knife on a wet rock. I reoder another mag release for around $3.00 for S&W. Considering the cost of the part and that it can be replaced in about 30 seconds I was not too worried. I am still waiting on the mag release, however. Good luck and just take your time.

 

[MNPvsG]

Lets think about this



It happens more with the 40,



So what are the differences between the 40 and 9?



recoil impulse...anything else?



Sounds like just a weak design to me.



stg58,



While accidentally hitting the button is a real issue, several here have sure as hell NOT hit the mag release and still dropped mags.



If you will read in the technical difficulties forum, the problem often happens when the mag is half empty, which has nothing to do with your fingers.

 

[m4arc]

This is probably a long shot, a VERY long shot but here it goes:



I wonder if the nose of the rounds in the magazines are pushing the little metal tab on the mag release, causing it to disengage?



Most here have reported this mostly happens with half empty mags and we're all aware of the rounds rattling around inside the magazine so I wonder if the rounds are floating around more, moving forward and pushing on the metal tab as they travel upwards?



If S&W made the little tab smaller I wonder if this could have been the problem...why else would they make it smaller?



:?:

 

[stg58fal]

I can only speak for myself

I can only speak for myself, so please don't thing that I am saying some people are not having mechincal failures.



That being said I would have told you were crazy and were to get off, if you told me I was hitting the mag release when I first starting having the problem with my M&P. It so suttle when it occurs it almost impossible to detect. That is why I think people will not agree with this statment to begin with.



This is just a guess, however the reason mags are dropping when they are half empty is because people have fired the weapon enough for their grip to change.



I know that I have a excellent grip and it is the same grip used by about every top level competior in pistol sports right now. Futhermore, it is taught by just about everyone now who is using moderning techinques. What I am getting to is that I have a good grip.



Even with the best grip in the world your hand can and does shift some on the weapon. The M&P places my hand so close to the mag catch it does not take but just the slightest movement and I am hitting the mag release.



Once again I can only speak for myself, however any one that is having problems please have an open mind and check your grip.

 

[raz-0]

Well, I have big hands, my serial number is MPBXXX, and I have no problems with dropped mags.



However, I did have problems with the slide locking back prematurely when i went to higher power factor ammo.



Turned out that I was just not able to get enough traction on the front strap to keep the muzzle flip to a minimum, and that caused my strong hand thumb to ever so slightly graze the slide release if I didn't keep my grip pressure just right. Muscling the gun just caused accuracy problems. If I ahd smaller hands, the reuslting movement og my hands very well could have caused my strong hand middle finger to contact the magazine release.



I've had to alter my grip slightly to deal with the slide release, but my first attempt to deal with it was putting on some a-grip. Which definitely keeps the front fingers planted despite gun movement.



I'm curious if anyone who has sharkskined their front strap is having any mag dropping issues.

 

[Jagman]

Re: You are probably correct...

I have never owned another pistol that has such an over sized mag well and allows such free movement of the top of the magazine while fully seated. I don't think there's much wrong with the mag catches per se, but the design of the mag catch absolutely requires that the magazine is held with a minimum amount of slop to prevent it from disengaging from the relatively small contact area of the mag catch metal "tooth", especially during the violent vibration and impulse of recoil.



Reinforcing my theory is that I've read where several posters on this forum have sent their pistols back to Smith several times for the same prob. and all Smith did was replace their mag catches each time, to no avail. Finally, only after a poster had Smith replace his frame did he finally see the issue resolved.



Just my 2 cents.







"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

This is the correct theory

After 2 trips back with my full size .40 and two different "mag catch" replacements, I finally talked to a gunsmith at Smith upon the 3rd visit and he explained that there were a bad batch of frames that abosultely had too much tolerance, and needed to be replaced. After sending me a free magazine with each trip back for repairs, the last trip they sent me a new frame, and added night sights as well! The gun hasn't had one problem since and I have 4 mags gratis plus night sights.

 

[PR1]

Re: You are probably correct...

[quote name='APismoClam']



I have never owned another pistol that has such an over sized mag well and allows such free movement of the top of the magazine while fully seated. I don't think there's much wrong with the mag catches per se, but the design of the mag catch absolutely requires that the magazine is held with a minimum amount of slop to prevent it from disengaging from the relatively small contact area of the mag catch metal "tooth", especially during the violent vibration and impulse of recoil.



Reinforcing my theory is that I've read where several posters on this forum have sent their pistols back to Smith several times for the same prob. and all Smith did was replace their mag catches each time, to no avail. Finally, only after a poster had Smith replace his frame did he finally see the issue resolved.



Just my 2 cents.







"That is my theory, it is mine, and belongs to me and I own it, and what it is too." -- Anne Elk

This is the correct theory

After 2 trips back with my full size .40 and two different "mag catch" replacements, I finally talked to a gunsmith at Smith upon the 3rd visit and he explained that there were a bad batch of frames that abosultely had too much tolerance, and needed to be replaced. After sending me a free magazine with each trip back for repairs, the last trip they sent me a new frame, and added night sights as well! The gun hasn't had one problem since and I have 4 mags gratis plus night sights.[/quote]

I wish they'll do that to mine.