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Discussion Starter #1
I'm having a hard time getting 10, 20 & 30 round magazines to function in my S&W AR15T.

Can you please list the magazines you've gotten to function?



Thanks in Advance
 

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Everything you ever wanted to know about magazines for AR's:



http://magfaq.tripod.com/



Note: This FAQ is dated 2000, so products like the magpul plastic mags aren't mentioned.
 

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I support Magpul.



The PMag is OUTSTANDING. They are strong, cheap ($14.25 a mag) and come with the Magpul anti-tilt follower already in them.



http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.p...products_id=906



They have 2 videos linked, also, that demonstrate the PMag... the destruction test stands tantamount to how good they actually are.
 

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Unsure of what you mean by function, but there are a number of tolerence issues between the M&P mag wells that can cause some magazines to not properly fit inside the mag well.



While conducting an extended T&E of 3 M&P 15's, two would accept anything. One would not accept any PMAG- the mag well in this case was longer then the others. Additionally, it was not beveled, and the interior dimensions were probably on the narrow side of the spectrum as it wouldn't even accept any cerra coated mags.



Hope this helps.
 

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I can try to explain why the PMAG does not work well with the M&P. Apparently, the folks at S&W use a different widget in order to cast the lower than other manufacturer's. The folks at MagPul have heard this story all to many times and have a fix for the problem. Something about filing off some access composite off the magazine where it fits into the magazine well. I have called MagPul concerning the problem, and MagPul was nice enough to send replacement magazines at no charge for anything. Good people, great customer service and awesome magazines.
 

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Morgan- i am aware of the Magpul fix. It should be unnecessary. The Magpuls fit in all other lowers, and why it won't fit in some of the S&W is wrong. If they want to play in the big game, perhaps some better attention to QC/QA is necessary.

Of course, that doesn't address why other coated aluminum mags wouldn't work in the same gun.

FYI- The original lowers are Stag. The newer ones are from another company. Smith doesn't "cast" any of them.
 

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Morgan Walker said:
I can try to explain why the PMAG does not work well with the M&P. Apparently, the folks at S&W use a different widget in order to cast the lower than other manufacturer's. The folks at MagPul have heard this story all to many times and have a fix for the problem. Something about filing off some access composite off the magazine where it fits into the magazine well. I have called MagPul concerning the problem, and MagPul was nice enough to send replacement magazines at no charge for anything. Good people, great customer service and awesome magazines.


I doubt Magpul sent you new magazines only because of the S&W 15T magwell issue. Magpul isn't doing that. Their response is that this issue is solely a S&W caused problem. Magpul isn't accepting any responsbility for this. Zero. Magpul likely simply swapped out your earlier manufactured PMAGs (i.e., ones with dates 3/07 through 6/07) for ones that were made 7/07 or later. That's a voluntary recall they are doing for everyone because of problems with their earlier mag bodies. I suppose it's possible that the swelled earlier mag bodies could contribute to the problem of PMAGs not fitting into a 15T but that's just part of the problem. Even the new 7/07 built PMAGs don't fit into many recently built 15Ts without you filing down the top rib on the PMAG. S&W must be making the 15T's magwells at the tightest tolerances allowed for mil-spec. Why they would do this is beyond me, but because the only mags that won't fit into my rifle are PMAGs and I was able to spend 15 minutes sanding the top rib of the mags to get them to fit fine, I'm not sending my lower back to S&W for replacement for this.
 

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onebohemian said:
[quote name='Morgan Walker'] I have called MagPul concerning the problem, and MagPul was nice enough to send replacement magazines at no charge for anything. Good people, great customer service and awesome magazines.


I doubt Magpul sent you new magazines only because of the S&W 15T magwell issue. Magpul isn't doing that. Their response is that this issue is solely a S&W caused problem. Magpul isn't accepting any responsbility for this. Zero. Magpul likely simply swapped out your earlier manufactured PMAGs (i.e., ones with dates 3/07 through 6/07) for ones that were made 7/07 or later. That's a voluntary recall they are doing for everyone because of problems with their earlier mag bodies. [/quote]



I never said that MagPul sent my new magazine because of the issue I had, but rather MagPul was nice enough to send replacement magazines for no charge. But I do agree that MagPul instead of recalling, or volunteering to retrieve the 03-07/06-07 mags was a very nice gesture...
 

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Pat Rogers said:
Morgan- i am aware of the Magpul fix. It should be unnecessary. The Magpuls fit in all other lowers, and why it won't fit in some of the S&W is wrong. If they want to play in the big game, perhaps some better attention to QC/QA is necessary.

Of course, that doesn't address why other coated aluminum mags wouldn't work in the same gun.

FYI- The original lowers are Stag. The newer ones are from another company. Smith doesn't "cast" any of them.


Pat, if that is true, why isnt Stag lowers having the same issue with MagPul?
 

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Hi Morgan- It is true, as per the LE reps, with whom i have been in contact with regularly for the past few months in order to get the story completed.

As to why they do/ don't fit in Stag, is out of my pay grade. Sorry!

Ft Polk. I was there one iteration when it was 90, 30, sunnt, hail and tornadoes.

What a great place to train!
 

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I've heard that the Stag lowers and the pmags don't get along well.





BTW, the lower receivers are machined from forgings, last I heard Olympic is about the only brand which still sells cast lower receivers.
 

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As Pat has already stated, its beyond my pay grade. I really wish there was an answer, but that would take all the fun out of discussing the issue. :wink:
 

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Hmmmmmmm, the mystery thickens...
 

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If somebody with access to a 15T in which Pmags fit and one in which the same magazines won't would simply put a mic on the magwells for us, I think we'd get along way toward an answer to this question. There's posts all over the internet about this 15T/Pmag problem, but none of them I've read ever talk about actual measurements of the magwells that work vs. the ones that don't. Are the bad magwells actually longer in some fashion? Are they tighter at the mouth? Holding them side by side, does it appear to the naked eye that the angle of the magwells are slightly different? I think it makes more sense to figure out the differences between the 15Ts that work and the ones that don't, and then start tracking serial numbers to see if we can figure out a patter instead of comparing the 15Ts that don't work with Stags that do work. We all have pretty much have come the conclusion that we don't know who makes the current S&W lowers, when S&W switched from Stag built to ?? built (if ever), and that S&W isn't going to give us the details and doesn't seem interested in getting to the bottom of this seemingly minor problem. (By the way, I did some searching this afternoon and don't see any posts by Stag owners complaining Pmags won't fit. I didn't locate a Stag-only forum and search there though so if someone knows of a specific post online about this, I'd like to see it.)
 

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I don't cruise on AR15.com very often.

Is anyone talking about this over there?

I'm really curious to find out which lower S&W is using now???
 

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The issue is with my 15A too, not just the 15T across the board; so it is a systemic problem at S&W.
 

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Onebohemian- not sure who you mean by all. I have been T&E these 3 guns since May, and have been in contact with the LE guys almost daily.

I probably have the answers to some of the questions voiced here.

However, my word to others and the fact that i am writing a story kinda' shapes what i can and cannot say.

For example, for me to write the whole story here, in dribs and drabs will mean it is useless to the editor.

And, there is probably enough changes going on that a flow chart will look mre like a Mississippi flood.



I'll say this. No maker is perfect, and while some have a propensity for turning out lesser quality guns, right now the S&W is the new kid on the block and suffereing from growing pains.

I have hope for the gun, and believe it is a big step above the hobby makers, but below Colt and LMT. That is not likely to change.



I learn a little more about the guns each day.
 
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