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shooting

There is not a jury in the state that will convict this guy, people are tired of thieves. I wish he could have just held them at gunpoint until they arrived but they made the choice to commit the crime.
 

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Another news story

I was searching for more info and found this news story:



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metrop...an/5309288.html



Here's my favorite quote from that story:

""There's a reason we don't let people take the law into their own hands," he said. "We have a police force for that. As an established society, we believe we are better off with an authorized police force that has standards and training rather than untrained vigilantes." stated Adam Gershowitz, a law professor at South Texas College of Law.



WE do have police, that take over 7 minutes to respond! I'm not blaming the police but they cannot be everywhere at everytime. Citizens need to be the first line of defense!
 

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I think Horn's actions will send a message to criminals that in Texas you can stand to lose more than you hand for stealing. Sad to say, but I wish the law was like that in most States. If you've ever been a victim of burglary you almost wish you were there with pistol in hand. (or in this case, your neighbor was) Most States have more neighbors who see things and chose not to say anything (No Snitching).
 

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While Texas law may exonerate this man for this shooting, he is ceratinly no hero. Texas law allows that in certain circumstance force CAN be used, it doesn't mean that it SHOULD be used in all cases. He seemingly had no reason to confront these men who WERE fleeing the scene. There has been no mention that these guys were armed, so it should be assumed that they weren't. He was told that officers were in route and he was to remain in his house until they could get there. Had the offenders attempted to enter the guy's house, then it would be a different story. On a personal level, I certainly wouldn't want my neighbor to kill someone because they stole some of my "stuff" while I was away. I also feel this guy had decided to shoot these criminals long before they made the mistake of robbing a house next to his.
 

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Very interesting. But how does one know that the thieves didn't stop and gave up... and the guy shot him anyway? This is really interesting. I wouldn't want this neighbor to see me sneaking into my house via a window because I lost my keys!
 

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ravedavewave said:
While Texas law may exonerate this man for this shooting, he is ceratinly no hero. Texas law allows that in certain circumstance force CAN be used, it doesn't mean that it SHOULD be used in all cases. He seemingly had no reason to confront these men who WERE fleeing the scene. There has been no mention that these guys were armed, so it should be assumed that they weren't. He was told that officers were in route and he was to remain in his house until they could get there. Had the offenders attempted to enter the guy's house, then it would be a different story. On a personal level, I certainly wouldn't want my neighbor to kill someone because they stole some of my "stuff" while I was away. I also feel this guy had decided to shoot these criminals long before they made the mistake of robbing a house next to his.


Maybe because the neighborhood has been vilently robbed several times in the past week. Literally. 3 violent robberies in a one week period and the cops have YET to catch anymore and are STILL responding in 7 minutes. The neighborhood is 4 miles from my house and my mom lives there. Families that live there are not just white trash, but are quite wealthy (the houses start from about 250k). Then this happens. Personally, i'm happy he did it. Why? Because if it takes the cops that long to get to your house, then you could be dead and the criminal will be gone. It is time we take back what is ours and not let the thieves steal what we have worked hard for.



Besides, even if they didn't have a weapon, they could have acted like they did, and that is still considered using "deadly force."
 

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BTW, I wanted to explain this real quick. I love my state. I mean LOVE my state. My family has been here since they were given the land grant by Stephen F Austin. A member of my family was also in the first 100 Texas Rangers, fought for the state's freedom from Mexico, fought for the CSA during the Civil War, WWI, and WWII. When it comes to my state, I can be very... excited. So don't think i'm mad, or take what I have to say personally. I just love my state.



ETA: John Wesley Hardin is a distant cousin of mine. Seriously.
 

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I don't think inanimate objects are of more virtuous worth than a human life . . . even a despicable, scum-sucking low-life. Human life is precious.



That said, our legal system does not have criminal punishments that are severe enough to serve as deterrents. If it takes folks shooting thieves with shotguns to curb thievery (and other crimes), then so be it.



I think there are plenty of opportunities in this country to make a gun living, legally. People CHOOSE to live a life of crime. Sometimes, your choices result in death.
 

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Grimwulff said:
He is in Texas, couple of miles from my house, so don't speak of state laws you don't know about.



You have the right to defend your nieghbor's property in Texas.



So... it doesn't have to be HIS property.
I'm not sure if your post was in response to mine but I was referring to this part of the article...

Horn tells the dispatcher that he understands his rights and even makes reference to the September 1 expansion that gives homeowners greater protection from prosecution should they choose to confront someone breaking into their home.
...which seems to conflict with the fact that it was not his home. But if Texas law allows it, then Texas law allows it. I couldn't do it.
 

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Does anybody know of the outcome of this yet? I spoke to my mother on Thanks Giving about this story and she believes he is wrong 100%. While I don't agree, and I very curious to find out what happens to thing gentleman in the long term.
 

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chilewhat said:
man, I wanna live in Texas.


Hahah...funny. Through reading this and listening to the audio, that's all i could think. However think Florida is pretty lenient too though...I’m not sure.



The one thing that may or may not make the situation tough for Horn is on the audio it has him saying "I'm gonna kill em" before he runs out the door. i bet the DA will have a hayday with that.
 

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The gun community tends to get too caught up in the belief that right/wrong and legal/illegal are the determining factors in court. See, that would make sense and you are talking about a government function in which over paid lawyers play the primary rules.



It's a wild card. Too many good shoots end up with people in jail, and too many shoots that we have been taught as "wrong" end up exonerated. Were they truly wrong - often, but not always.



The only way to know will be when we see how much the defense attorney's suit cost. If it's really nice and the judge treats him familiarly, the guy is off. If the judge scowls at the Sears, wrinkled suit of a public defender, the guy is toast. Of course, if the DA is running for higher office or re-election, then the guy is completely screwed no matter what happened.
 

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This guy will be facing murder charges. Defense of habitation (home) is never an excuse in it self for murder. You can't kill anyone over property, you must be in iminent fear of your life, and if the guy is leaving, all bad...
 

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Book'emDano said:
This guy will be facing murder charges. Defense of habitation (home) is never an excuse in it self for murder. You can't kill anyone over property, you must be in iminent fear of your life, and if the guy is leaving, all bad...


As far as i know in texas u can kill someone over property!
 

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must be nice. I bet if we applied some of texas law to caliofornia we would have a lot less bull to deal with. The law is so tight the honest peolple cant carry guns to protect themselves from the bastards that do it illegally with malicious intent
 

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I guess he better pray to high heaven that his neighbor asked him to protect his property, if I read that law right that's about the only thing that will save him.



I still don't agree with what he did though. From what I can gather from the articles online these guys were unarmed and surely not a threat to this man or his family, he appears to have been looking for a confrontation and IMO seemed dead set on shooting these guys probably even before he called 911.
 

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Texas is one of the "Shoot first" states. meaning, you can shoot the intruder even if he has not been "a threat to your life or health".



However, Mr. Horn left his home and engaged two men that wanted nothing to do with him or his property. Mr. Horn was not protecting himself or his home, he ran outside and took it upon himself to do police work. he did it poorly, at that. police would not have fired on the men until all other means were exhausted. police, 98% of the time, would have gotten two living men cuffed and stuffed in the cruiser.



I dont want to fight with anyone here... but Mr. Horn was out of line. I dont care what race they were, I dont care that they where peices of crap and theives. Mr. Horn was the aggressor in this case.



the judge should have robbed them of their freedom, by means of time behind bars...



mr. horn robbed them of their lives...



I'm sorry if this pisses anyone off. I dont condone murder... and that's clearly what this was.



and please, before anyone says "what if the burglars threatened him, or pointed a gun at him, blah blah blah".



they would have had the right. BECAUSE... an american citizen has the right to defend themselves from any person or persons that are aggressing on them. I dont think this was even the case, otherwise the news would have probably said it. Mr. Horn was technically the aggressor.



especially if he was told by the authorities to stay in his home. direct disobedience of lawful orders.



case closed.
 
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