I've had my MP40c for a few months now and no problems through 1000 rounds, knock on wood. I'm looking for a smaller carry gun when needed, and wanted to know if anyone out there had the Kahr PM40 and what they think of it compared to the MP40C. Reliable? The keltec p3AT has a great design, but the reliability I've read from some owners makes me think you might be better off throwing it at a perp. Any info would be useful - Thanks in advance.
MP40C vs Kahr PM40?
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I don't have the M&P but I do have the Kahr PM40. There are a lot of Kahr bashers out there and there is a grain of truth to their complaints, but only a grain. The Kahr is built to very tight tolerances, more like a fine watch than a military grade combat weapon. Kahr states up front that it needs 200-300 break-in rounds to become reliable. They aren't lying. Plan on putting at least that many rounds through it before carrying it. In addition mine had a poorly formed feed ramp - no problem. I called Kahr and they paid the overnight freight both ways. The turn around time was less than two weeks. Their customer service is excellent, and my pistol hasn't missed a beat since its return. I'm at roughly 500rds, half of that since getting it back.
Although the PM40 is very well built they are not a shoot every weekend pistol. Frankly I wouldn't want to. It kicks like a freaking mule! And that's with practice ammo. Full power SD ammo is seriously un-fun to shoot. Double taps are a serious challenge but doable with practice. The PM9 on the other hand is supposed to be much more manageable and fun to shoot. Accuracy is quite good for a belly gun, and I got mine with the night sights. Yes it has real sights! The trigger is a joy. Silky smooth.
The next challenge is leather. Yes it can be slipped into a pocket but is that really how you want to carry it? There are very few companies making anything for the PM40, which is slightly thicker than both the PM9 and the MK40. Blade-Tech and High-Noon being some of the few. Others claim their stuff works but you need a shoehorn to get it into the holster and a come-a-long to get it back out. I have Milt Sparks working on a VMII for mine. FYI: There is somebody on Fleabay making cheapie (2 for $14) kydex mag pouches for the Kahrs.
The haters - there are a lot of people that bought early production polymer Kahrs and had issues. Just like S&W experienced issues with early M&Ps, Kahr had issues with their early Polymer pistols. You also have people that read about a problem 2 years ago and repeat it in every thread to this day. The third group are those that have a problem with the religion of the designer's father and as a result bash the company and its products every chance they get. Franky I couldn't care less if he worshiped toad stools or believed in the tooth fairy as long as it works when I need it.
Anyway will it last as long as your 40c? Probably not but I wouldn't want to be the one to put 4000-5000rds through a PM40. Will it last 10 times longer than a 9mm Kel-Tec? Probably. Bottom line - if you have the patience and pain tolerance to make it through the break-in and the patience to deal with excellent customer support if you are one of the few with issues, then it's without a doubt the most bang you'll find in the smallest possible semiautomatic package. Mine is NOT for sale!
Although the PM40 is very well built they are not a shoot every weekend pistol. Frankly I wouldn't want to. It kicks like a freaking mule! And that's with practice ammo. Full power SD ammo is seriously un-fun to shoot. Double taps are a serious challenge but doable with practice. The PM9 on the other hand is supposed to be much more manageable and fun to shoot. Accuracy is quite good for a belly gun, and I got mine with the night sights. Yes it has real sights! The trigger is a joy. Silky smooth.
The next challenge is leather. Yes it can be slipped into a pocket but is that really how you want to carry it? There are very few companies making anything for the PM40, which is slightly thicker than both the PM9 and the MK40. Blade-Tech and High-Noon being some of the few. Others claim their stuff works but you need a shoehorn to get it into the holster and a come-a-long to get it back out. I have Milt Sparks working on a VMII for mine. FYI: There is somebody on Fleabay making cheapie (2 for $14) kydex mag pouches for the Kahrs.
The haters - there are a lot of people that bought early production polymer Kahrs and had issues. Just like S&W experienced issues with early M&Ps, Kahr had issues with their early Polymer pistols. You also have people that read about a problem 2 years ago and repeat it in every thread to this day. The third group are those that have a problem with the religion of the designer's father and as a result bash the company and its products every chance they get. Franky I couldn't care less if he worshiped toad stools or believed in the tooth fairy as long as it works when I need it.
Anyway will it last as long as your 40c? Probably not but I wouldn't want to be the one to put 4000-5000rds through a PM40. Will it last 10 times longer than a 9mm Kel-Tec? Probably. Bottom line - if you have the patience and pain tolerance to make it through the break-in and the patience to deal with excellent customer support if you are one of the few with issues, then it's without a doubt the most bang you'll find in the smallest possible semiautomatic package. Mine is NOT for sale!
I really like my M&p40. Great to carry and shoot. While I don't own a Karh I have shot them and will pick one up in the future. But it will most likely be in a 9mm. The 40 takes me to long to get back on target after the first shot. The recoil is a little stiff but manageable. And I have to readjust my grip after a few rounds which may go away after some practice. But the 9mm is very quick and accurate for me.
I've put about 600 rounds through my keltec P-3AT with zero problems. It has been far more reliable than the M&P .40c that I bought March of this year. That lemon is on it's fourth trip back to S&W after 7 months of light use. The P-3AT is very easy to conceal and it's a gun you can carry all the time. It is also very accurate at reasonable distances. Some will argue that it's a bit small for a defensive round.
Cheers
giggsy
Cheers
giggsy
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30 Posts
I don't own a PM40 but I do have a PM9, M&P9C, and a Kel-tec p3at. I purchased the PM9 to replace the p3at for pocket duty. I broke the p3at using heavy 102gr rounds and had to have some parts replaced. But the main reason I am replacing it is the p3at is too small, both in the hand and in the pocket. I am constantly having to adjust the pocket holster so that the p3at isn't tilted sideways. Also I like having a single caliber for all of my pistols.
The PM9 has been rock solid during it's first 150 rounds, and it's recoil is for me comparable to the Kel-tec. Once the PM9 has had 500 rounds + 100 defense rounds through it I will replace the p3at with it.
Now if I needed an owb/iwb pistol I would, and do use the M&P. My PM9 is for pocket use only. It doesn't compare with the 9c when it comes to a battle pistol. the M&P offers faster accurate shots and faster follow up shots.
Lastly even though the Kel-tec did fail I wouldn't hesitate to purchase from them again. I will continue to carry it until my PM9 is ready for service. The Kel-tec service dept. is top notch. I don't recommend the 102gr Golden Saber for this particular pistol. Instead I would look into the Cor-Bon DPX loads.
The PM9 has been rock solid during it's first 150 rounds, and it's recoil is for me comparable to the Kel-tec. Once the PM9 has had 500 rounds + 100 defense rounds through it I will replace the p3at with it.
Now if I needed an owb/iwb pistol I would, and do use the M&P. My PM9 is for pocket use only. It doesn't compare with the 9c when it comes to a battle pistol. the M&P offers faster accurate shots and faster follow up shots.
Lastly even though the Kel-tec did fail I wouldn't hesitate to purchase from them again. I will continue to carry it until my PM9 is ready for service. The Kel-tec service dept. is top notch. I don't recommend the 102gr Golden Saber for this particular pistol. Instead I would look into the Cor-Bon DPX loads.
I have a Kahr CW9, and a new M&P 9c. I have not shot the M&P yet as I got it yesterday.
As far as the Kahr, I have put 500 rounds through it so far, from the first to the last they were all flawless. My groups were excellent. I would carry the Kahr anywhere and not worry about reliability.
If you do get one make sure you break it in really good...around 200 - 400 rounds the slide is really, really, tight...which I like, means it was machined properly.
I also have the KelTec P3AT which I use to carry on hot days, it has now been replaced by my Karh.
The others I carry occasionally, and mostly in the winter, or when I have to drive into Memphis...SIG P239 .40, Glock 19.
All in all I don't think you will go wrong if you decide on the Kahr..they are small, and super dependable...they like to be oiled, and broke in, if you remember that, it will reward you with years of excellent service.
Of course this is all IMHO...of which everyone has.
As far as the Kahr, I have put 500 rounds through it so far, from the first to the last they were all flawless. My groups were excellent. I would carry the Kahr anywhere and not worry about reliability.
If you do get one make sure you break it in really good...around 200 - 400 rounds the slide is really, really, tight...which I like, means it was machined properly.
I also have the KelTec P3AT which I use to carry on hot days, it has now been replaced by my Karh.
The others I carry occasionally, and mostly in the winter, or when I have to drive into Memphis...SIG P239 .40, Glock 19.
All in all I don't think you will go wrong if you decide on the Kahr..they are small, and super dependable...they like to be oiled, and broke in, if you remember that, it will reward you with years of excellent service.
Of course this is all IMHO...of which everyone has.
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