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Discussion Starter #1
The MP 45 is very accurate and realiable however we had the gun out the other day during training and it rained. The MP 45 slide, sights, extractor and magazines rusted after on exposure to the elements. Up until that point the gun was absolutly flawless IMO. I hope Smith sees this and corrects the problem. If they are marketing this gun heavily to police and military rust is completely unacceptable especially after one exposure to the rain.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thats a great idea, however for a duty gun (LE or Military) that wont be practical. Oil attracts dirt and with constent drawing from the holster and all the other abuse it will take the oil wont last. IMO you should not have to do that. Its a big problem that I saw with that particular gun. Maybe it was just that one weapon but it shouldnt happen. Especially the mags.
 

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My Glocks do it too! The thin coat of CLP will not pick up dirt or mess with "real" world performance. Put it on, take it off, let set for 24hrs and then buff. Gives me extra protection with out a oily residue. JMHO



Or- call S&W CS.
 

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When I was reviewing XD info I saw a lot of rust complaints and am now seeing a few regarding M&P's. I am a little mystified by them because of a cleaning technique I have used for years. I periodicaly clean my firearms with soap and water. The XD's (plural) I had did not rust. The M&P's I replaced them with have not rusted. I had my first XD for a year and my first M&P for 8 months. They have been fired several thousand times each. After washing, I allow them to dry completely and use compressed air and or the oven (metal parts only) to make sure they are dry prior to applying a light oil coat (Rem Oil). I do not have a rust problem with any of them. I have owned some guns for 50 years and they are not stainless and not rusted. I am wondering if those of you in the eastern states might be suffering from acid rain or something similar that just doesn't occur in the west.

:twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What we have to keep in mind is that in the private sector people who own and shoot guns do it as a hobby for the most part so they tend to take better care of their weapon. When you carry a weapon as part of a profession (LE or Military) it becomes another tool in the bag. If you are issuing a gun to a large group of armed proffesionals, who are going to carry it in all different weather conditions and environments it needs to be as "maintanance" free as possible. A duty weapon should be able to take a beating and not have to be looked after and oiled up every day. Its not practical. With all the rifles, handguns and subguns I'v used and abused I have never seen rust after one exposure to the rain. I think what we are looking at here is a defect not a maintanance issue. Every new deisgn that hits the market has problems. Thats why we put them through training and evaluation processes before we issue them.
 

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Bam159 said:
Thats a great idea, however for a duty gun (LE or Military) that wont be practical. Oil attracts dirt and with constent drawing from the holster and all the other abuse it will take the oil wont last. IMO you should not have to do that. Its a big problem that I saw with that particular gun. Maybe it was just that one weapon but it shouldnt happen. Especially the mags.


I doubt that very many LEO's constantly draw their weapon during their shift. I also doubt that very many fire there weapon 8000 to 10000 times per year with, on average, 1 draw and reholster every 6 rounds. I do. I use a light coat of Rem oil on metal surfaces and heaven forbid small dabs of gun grease on the slide bearing surfaces. 400 or 500 rounds between cleaning and re lube cycles does not seem to be a problem. If I was a LEO and had to draw my weapon routinely I would make certain that it was clean and lubed so when my life depended on it, it would be ready to protect me. IMHO
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sir I resepct your years behind the trigger and Im not going to be drawn into an argument with an man of your experience however LE has changed a lot in the past 10 years. Cops face more dangerous people now than ever. The days of a cop going his or her career without drawing their gun from its holster and pointing at another human being in a high stress situation are over. Cops draw their guns all the time weather on a felony stop or searching a building. They do it every day, many times during their shift. Cops also go through situations with guns that you dont, like fighting with suspects, falling on the ground and banging into things as their making entry into a house. Cops are great authoritys when it comes to the realiability of equipment.
 

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Bam159 said:
Sir I resepct your years behind the trigger and Im not going to be drawn into an argument with an man of your experience however LE has changed a lot in the past 10 years. Cops face more dangerous people now than ever. The days of a cop going his or her career without drawing their gun from its holster and pointing at another human being in a high stress situation are over. Cops draw their guns all the time weather on a felony stop or searching a building. They do it every day, many times during their shift. Cops also go through situations with guns that you dont, like fighting with suspects, falling on the ground and banging into things as their making entry into a house. Cops are great authoritys when it comes to the realiability of equipment.


You just stated very important reasons for them to clean and lube their weapons frequently. Once a week for something that important would not be to much to ask would it?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
No not at all, and I do keep after my weapon that often. All Im saying is that the gun rusted during training in the rain after one day. I have never in my life had a gun do that during any condition. It shouldn't have happened and it needs to be addressed. Other than that I like it better than any other polymer in its class. We have tried to get this gun to malfunction and have not been able to do it. It has about 2000 rounds of hard shooting ( not target shoointg) through it and we have not had a problem yet. My entire point is that the gun and mags rusted in one day. Not good.
 

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Bam, I hear what you are saying but am having a hard time with it because of first hand knowledge with 2 M&P's that have been exposed to wash water and to rain. We happen to be in our Monsoon season in Arizona and I shot in heavy rain twice this week. Haven't cleaned my .40 yet cause I'm going out again and the powder I use burns clean. I am looking at the .40 as I write this and do not see one spec of rust. When we shoot in the woods, which is the case this week, I lay my gear out on the tailgate of my truck. We had several cloudbursts that drenched 8 magazines and 2 M&P pistols on a couple of occasions. I simply shook them off and continued our practice session cause you don't know if it will be raining when you have to use these tools and they, as you have noted, better be capable of operating whenever needed. I am unable to find any rust on magazines or pistols.



You might post some pictures to help us see what you are talking about. Or at least tell us what parts of either the Pistol or Magazine rusted. I am operating on the premise that it didn't turn into a big brown blob of rust with all parts fused together.





I am not trying to be argumentative, only trying to understand.



Enjoy :twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The gun is not mine..its one we got from smith for TE. If I can get some pics I'll post them. On a note I forgot to mention..We are evaluating the gun so we have been beating the hell out of it to test its realiability. That meens no cleaning at all, no oiling no maintanance no nothing. After the humidity and rain on that day we noticed the heavy rusting. I could be because of the way we are training with it to test its durability. Another LE friend of mine is also testing it for a Dept. and he went swimming with it in salt water. He did not have a rusting problem. Mechanicaly the gun meets the three most important aspects of a combat handgun IMO.



1. Accuracy

2. Realibiltiy

3. Simplicity

(order subject to change)
 

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Bam159 said:
The gun is not mine..its one we got from smith for TE. If I can get some pics I'll post them. On a note I forgot to mention..We are evaluating the gun so we have been beating the hell out of it to test its realiability. That meens no cleaning at all, no oiling no maintanance no nothing. After the humidity and rain on that day we noticed the heavy rusting. I could be because of the way we are training with it to test its durability. Another LE friend of mine is also testing it for a Dept. and he went swimming with it in salt water. He did not have a rusting problem. Mechanicaly the gun meets the three most important aspects of a combat handgun IMO.



1. Accuracy

2. Realibiltiy

3. Simplicity

(order subject to change)


This could be considered significant information I would think. A prospective M&P buyer just might be turned off by your opening statement if the abusive treatment was not known, don't you think.



Was the saltwater swim before or after your detection of rust?



Are you LEO and if so what Department are you with?



Was the pistol cleaned after the swim?



What is "The Rest of The Story"?



:twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The department will not be disclosed



The swim, as I said, was another dept not mine



The gun rusted. It should not have done that. Bottom line end of story
 

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Bam159 said:
The department will not be disclosed



The swim, as I said, was another dept not mine



The gun rusted. It should not have done that. Bottom line end of story


Thats fine but I am curious why you will not answer the direct basic question: Are you a LEO?



Enjoy. :twisted:
 

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Bam159 said:
The department will not be disclosed.The swim, as I said, was another dept not mine.The gun rusted. It should not have done that. Bottom line end of story




What would you expect from a gun that had been treated like that? ANY gun is going to rust after treatment like that. What exactly were you trying to prove???





"That meens no cleaning at all, no oiling no maintanance no nothing. After the humidity and rain on that day we noticed the heavy rusting. I could be because of the way we are training with it to test its durability. Another LE friend of mine is also testing it for a Dept. and he went swimming with it in salt water."
 

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We have a MP.45 that is being tested and has around 2400 rounds fired without cleaning or oiling and has not malfuction. However it has developed a light dusting of rust on the slide from handling and not being wiped off. My personal MP is clean and free of any rust and should stay that way as I clean it faithfully after use. But, over the years I have seen many lawmens handguns that were rusty on the outside but were reliable shooters.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
What would you expect from a gun that had been treated like that? ANY gun is going to rust after treatment like that. What exactly were you trying to prove???



Are you kidding me? Your joking right? I have seen Sig and Glock absolutly destroyed in testing and have never seen rust AFTER ONE DAY IN THE RAIN. My M-4 takes more of a beating than that and has not one sport of rust on it. If you advertise a gun as a combat/duty weapon and it rusts during testing thats not even that harsh, then maybe something needs to be addressed. If your gun functioned great on saturday afternoon on the indoor range in prime conditions then thats great for you. Working guns need a little more I guess. A gun your issuing to 2 or 3 hundred people that is going to see service for 10-15 years demands more that a hobby gun sir.
 

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Most here are not retired , we do not have time to wash our weapons down with soap and water, blow dry the damn thing with compressed air, then apply a small coat oil after each use. You should not have to baby a weapon that is marketed for LE and miltary use.



The rust is an issue......
 

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I disagree, a gun is a tool, and tools have to be cared for. I dont care if its a wrench, a gun, or a saw, you clean it up after use so it will remain useful and reliable.



Doubly so for an LEO, your gun should be immaculent. An LEO should clean his weapon weekly, and after every range trip or fireing incident. I cannot imagine no matter what kind of quality the tool is, relying on a weapon to save my bacon in a nasty situation when its treated like crap and never cleaned. That is just plain irresponsible to yourself and those that you protect.
 
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