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Discussion Starter #1
I found a very accurate loading for my M&P: 3.6 grains of W231 with a 124 gr Lee TL cast lead bullet, lubed with Johnson Paste Wax and loaded to an oal of 1.12. This load grouped .65" off a bench at 7 yards as is soft shooting.



But, I can't get consistancy from group to group with the same load fired later in the day or the next day and I'm completely baffled. Groups will open up to 1.5". Clean barrel, in the middle of testing or at the end. It's driving me nuts. It isn't the "jitters", flinching or anything else. I get out my 45 1911 and put the shots in one hole, offhand, at this range.



rjs
 

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When you shoot from a rest does the grouping come back?



If so I would think it then becomes the human contribution to the equation. It's doubtful that the trigger break of the 45 is the exact same as the MP. You may be slightly heavy on the MP trigger and not really realize it.
 

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Throwin Lead said:
When you shoot from a rest does the grouping come back?



If so I would think it then becomes the human contribution to the equation. It's doubtful that the trigger break of the 45 is the exact same as the MP. You may be slightly heavy on the MP trigger and not really realize it.


I haven't figured out why, but I can shoot just as tight of a group offhand as off my makeshift rest.



The trigger on the 1911 is a lot nicer but the M&P with the "do at home" trigger job as posted by Dan is a pretty nice trigger compared to what it started out as.



rjs
 

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Come on guys. Isn't shooting at seven yards kind

of close to judge accuracy of a handgun? Most

everyone that shoots pistols shoots off of a ransom

rest or a sand bag at 25 yards.



Zeke
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ZB338 said:
Come on guys. Isn't shooting at seven yards kind

of close to judge accuracy of a handgun? Most

everyone that shoots pistols shoots off of a ransom

rest or a sand bag at 25 yards.



Zeke


Probably is but the plates that I'm shooting are at 7 yards. So, my reloading for this gun is geared toward a soft, easy to get back on target at 7 yards and hit 6" diameter steel plates.



I think the days of me shooting handguns at 25 yards are about gone. 60 years old, arthritis in hands and trifocals. I still feel like a 25 year old but there's never one around when you need her




rjs
 

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If you want to test for accuracy 25 yards would be the minimum, and 50 yards even better, any decent pistol is capable of putting 9 out of 10 through one hole at 7 yards, the only limiting factor at that distance is the shooter. Back when I was in law enforcement the better shooters would shoot the X out of the target at 7 yards, I'm not talking about the X ring, but the printed X itself which you could cover with a dime.
 

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[I think the days of me shooting handguns at 25 yards are about gone. 60 years old, arthritis in hands and trifocals. I still feel like a 25 year old but there's never one around when you need her




rjs[/quote]



I know the feeling!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Speaking of the olden days, I found some 35 year old targets shot with my Ruger 6 1/2", 44 magnum Blackhawk. One was my hunting load of 2400 and the Hornady 240 gr. HP. (I shot my first deer with this gun and this load). Four shots in 5 1/2" at 50 yards from the sitting postion (ala Keith). A target I shot last year with the same load after not having fired the gun in 30 years grouped 3 1/2 inches at 25 yards from the bench. Another target was with 4227 and 250 gr bullets I cast: 4 shots with a group of .88" at 25 yards off a bench.



I feel much better now. Reminds me I used to be a pretty decent shot




rjs
 

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You can test accuracy at any distance you choose. If you use a ransom rest you are testing gun and ammo. If you shoot by hand, sand bag or not, you are testing the complete shooting system. As distance increases expectation should increase (dimensionaly).



Some of us old guys have a handicap or 2. It doesn't mean we have to stop. Pour a little milk on your shooting glasses and try shooting at 50 or 100 yds. That simulates onset of Cataracts. You might want to move the game in a little bit. We are not blind and can still operate safely just have some minor handicaps.



One element that can cause us old guy's to shoot good groups followed by bad has to do with Blood Oxygen levels. Make certain you don't rush around taping or changing targets or some other physical activity then expect absolute accuracy. Holding your breath too long will get you also.



The main thing we need to do is keep shooting.



Enjoy



:twisted:
 

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TOF said:
<Good stuff snipped>

The main thing we need to do is keep shooting.

Enjoy

:twisted:


Good comments, TOF. Even though I'm not as good as I was, I'm having a good time. I even managed to beat the two best shots in our steel plate club with my stock SA 1911. (They were both shooting revolvers and, I think, "off their form" and I had an exceptional run. Haven't done it since.)



I cast bullets, reloaded, hunted upland game and deer and antelope, shot lots of badgers, coyotes and wild dogs on the ranch and really enjoyed it. Then came kids, bad cattle markets, folks dying and other stuff and I just put firearms and hunting on the back burner for quite a few years. I bought my first centerfire semi auto pistol a couple of years ago, a XD40SC. I'd forgotten how much fun I used to have with shooting and loading. The steel plate shoots are a lot of fun. I can't do long arms anymore due to a shoulder problem (and have sold all my rifles and shotguns) but am having fun with handguns.



Regards, rjs
 

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Didn't mean to sound like I was putting you down personally

RJ. Just talking is all. Sounds like you had a pretty good life

so far and there aint no reason for you to quit now. I'm 73

and still shooting IDPA and anything else I can whenever

I can. Keep on chuggin'.



Zeke
 

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ZB338 said:
Didn't mean to sound like I was putting you down personally

RJ. Just talking is all. Sounds like you had a pretty good life

so far and there aint no reason for you to quit now. I'm 73

and still shooting IDPA and anything else I can whenever

I can. Keep on chuggin'.



Zeke


No problem, Zeke.



I think the nearest IDPA shooting is 110 miles away from me, one way. The steel target club is 1.5 miles away




One reason I shoot at shorter ranges (the main one being for the steel shoots) is I figure the shorter ranges would be close to what I might encounter in a self defense situation. So hopefully, I can have fun shooting plates and hone my marksmanship skills for SD at the same time. I figure I can't run fast and can't fight anymore so being proficient with a hangun might come in handy.



We live in a very safe area but, you never know. Then, of course, there's always mountain lions and "mad moose". Probably need a 44 for the moose. (Cool, get to buy another gun, perhaps a Smith 629 in a 4"
) A cow moose with a calf worries me most and I've encounterd a lot of them on our hiking/backpacking trips in the mountains. (no grizzlys in this area, thank goodness).



rjs
 

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rjs, do you have much trouble with bounce back shooting steel at 7 yards?

The closest formal range to me is in Payson AZ and they have IPSC matches. I believe they keep all steel at 15 or greater to prevent bounce back injuries. We do shoot cardboard from 1 yard to 20 or so but not steel.



I wish we had a few Moose down here. We have plenty Elk, Black Bear and Mountain Lions but no Moose.



ZB338, it looks like you have us on age cause I'm still a 67 year old Kid. I guess I better quit whining. I expect you know what I was talking about though.



Enjoy



:twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
TOF said:
rjs, do you have much trouble with bounce back shooting steel at 7 yards?

The closest formal range to me is in Payson AZ and they have IPSC matches. I believe they keep all steel at 15 or greater to prevent bounce back injuries. We do shoot cardboard from 1 yard to 20 or so but not steel.

:twisted:


Yes, there is a bit of a problem at 7 yards. I bought wrap around, polycarbonate shooting glasses just for this problem. I've been hit in the arms, face and chest with shrapnel and drawn blood. I'm not real excited about that!



I asked one of the "leaders" if we shouldn't move back aways (like 15 yards) but he didn't seem too excited about doing so. BTW, my shooting glasses are the ones with a prescription insert on the inside so I'm hoping I have a double layer of protection.



I think paper targets would be a great idea




rjs
 
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