Not a good first impression...

7974 Views 30 Replies 16 Participants Last post by CBRADGO, Jan 10, 2007

CBRADGO

Discussion Starter · Aug 31, 2006

I hate that this is my first post but with this being the M&P Forum, I felt it necessary to let my first experience with my new M&P be known here. I purchased the gun of my dreams last weekend and until yesterday I had only been able to look at it, clean it, and imagine what shooting it would be like. Well, I got to finally see what I had paid my hard earned money for and I was outright disgusted.

I bought the M&P .40 with 2 15 rd mags, Trijicon NS, internal safety and mag disconnect and got the chance to shoot it yesterday. I bought 150 rds of 180 gr WWB (I planned on carrying 180 gr Rangers) and was expecting a great afternoon of shooting with a Sig 229 buddy of mine. It turned into the most frustrating range trip I've ever had.

Of the 135 rds I fired (apprx 9 mags), I had 7 mags with at least one, most of them 2-3, failure to feeds. I would get 3 shots off with ~ 2 seconds between each shot and the slide would lock open. After the second time, I thought tapping the mags to settle the cartridges would do the trick. Wrong again. From the 3rd mag on, every mag was an FTF or multiple FTF. I tried 10 in the mag, 12, 15, all resulted in the same frustration. I've fired thousands of WWB without a FTF so the ammo (in my mind) is not the culprit. I called S&W and spoke with a CSR who said she would be sending me a return slip with instructions to ship it back. I'm sure S&W will fix it, but a brand new gun is not supposed to malfunction like that. Maybe it's a simple fix or I got a lemon. Either way, I hope it's an anomaly and I have my gun back with peace of mind. If not, S&W sends me a new 1911 or I get my money back. I won't own a gun that I can't depend on to protect me or my family when the SHTF. Period.

One other thing that puzzled me was this: If I "slammed" the mag into the mag well, the slide would release and load a round into the chamber. Has anyone else experienced this? I say "slammed" because I could insert it and the slide stayed open but if I inserted it with force or "slammed" it home, it chambered a round. :?:

Any ideas, comments, feedback? TIA...

Brad

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1 - 20 of 31 Posts

radd

· #2 · Aug 31, 2006

Brad,

Welcome to the forum. As you can see this section of the forum barely has any topics. The M&P .40 has a very good track record so far in this forum. I have shot couple hundred round of WWB with no problem my self. I am sure its just a fluke that S&W will fix for you.

Having said that I have notice if you slam a half loaded mag too hard the nose of the rounds inside the mag will shift upward and cause a potential failure. This is result of lack of spring tension. If I fully load my CA legal 10rounds in the mag and slam it home, rounds inside the mag will sit still.

I am sorry, this happens to you as a brand new M&P owner. Give it another chance and keep us posted.

Also, the slide releases automatically when you slam in a fresh mag is an unintentional side effect of the M&P design. This subject has been visited many times here.

Here is a recent post of it:

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=317

In short, it suppose to do that :wink:

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raz-0

· #3 · Aug 31, 2006

Ok, you say the slide would lock back. Are any of the rounds in a funny position, or is the slide jsut locking back?

If it is just locking back, the first thing I'd check is your grip. Where areyour thumbs? Are they touching the slide release? Pushing up OR in on it?

The problem might be something you are doing. I speak from experience as I have had a wicked time with that with my baby eagle with the last gen slide stop which is REALLY long. Start doing USPSA stuff, an I'm causing it to lock up all the time from unintended contact with it. It's also a common issue for people shooting glocks who have hands that happen to be the right size and an aggressive grip.

First check the nut behind the trigger.

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CBRADGO

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 31, 2006

Thanks radd. I will definitely give the M&P another chance. I researched too much and worked too hard to just give up on it. I believe S&W will do what's right, I just hope it gets taken care of quickly.

raz-0, the grip I use was taught to me by the S&W shooting team first hand when Jerry Miculek broke the records in West Point, MS so I don't think it's that but good thinking... :idea:

IAShooter

· #5 · Aug 31, 2006

Brad,

I think if you check around the forum you'll find posts regarding recent WWB ammo. I purchased my first box of WWB a month or so ago and had the same issue.

MP40FAN has also had the same issue. Check out the Light Primer Strike thread. Sounds like there might be an issue with the recent production of the WWB ammo.

The S.O. guys were qualify the other day and took my M&P out for a test run and they reported no problems, so I'm planning on trying another brand of ammo.

Regardless of my further testing, IMHO I think there is still a possible issue with the striker spring. To light or the striker is being prematurely released. Not sure which, but my testing continues.

CBRADGO

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 31, 2006

I don't think the ammo is causing the slide to lock open. Every time a round did get chambered it went boom when I pulled the trigger. I think the problem is the functionality of the gun itself or the mags. Either way, S&W will be receiving it back and fixing it. If it's not fixed, I'll have a new 1911 or my money back and possibly a bad taste in mouth with regards to the M&P. I just hope the gun is fixed and I can continue raving about it like everyone else. I want this to be solved more than anyone, I love the M&P!

Look, S&W is being given the benefit of the doubt that this is a small issue and they'll take care of it like they've always done. I love S&W, always have. I've recommended them to countless people and will continue to do so because of their commitment to quality and customer service. But being the type of person I am, if I can't count on my gun if/when I need it, I'm going to raise 9 types of hell to make sure that 1) My problem is fixed with no possibility of further issues and 2) No one else has the same type of problem.

I'll be happy to go test every make, brand, and size of ammo if S&W foots the bill but I shouldn't have to. If I want to exclusively shoot WWB then this gun should shoot it, no problem. Sure, handloads or cheap junk ammo can give any gun problems but this is supposed to be the answer to Glock and the future of auto pistols. It should shoot and function with anything I put in the mag regardless. That's not asking too much since it's a production gun that is going to one day serve our armed forces and LEO's all around the world, is it?

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IAShooter

· #7 · Aug 31, 2006

Brad,

I agree that the M&P should swallow everything fed to it, but reading similiar posts, I would have to believe there is an issue with the WWB at the moment.

My WWB would also cause my slide to lock open prematurely.

Spoke to my LE friends this morning and they tell me my M&P swallowed Ultramax ammo perfectly at the range yesterday. Maybe a call to Winchester is in order.

I plan on calling Smith myself this afternoon and see if they can enlighten me about a couple issues I have and that others are having. I personally don't settle for "send it in, we'll fix it". If there is an issue I want to know WHY.

Keep us posted on your progress.

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raz-0

· #8 · Aug 31, 2006

CBRADGO said:
raz-0, the grip I use was taught to me by the S&W shooting team first hand when Jerry Miculek broke the records in West Point, MS so I don't think it's that but good thinking... :idea:

Just because it's a good grip doesn't mean things don't land in the wrong place. One of the guys I know with the glock problem is a Master class shooter in production. It's why he doesn't use the glock extended stop, and he still has to be careful not to get careless about where he puts his strong hand thumb.

That being said, the slide release is pretty simple and in plain view as far as internals go. There's a tab poking out on the side, it normally gets pushed up by the magazine follower (not that this is different orm other guns, it's just exceptionally easy to see the whole workings on the M&P).

Take the slide off, load up a magazine witht he offending ammo, and see if anything doesn't look right. If it don't look right, mic the ammo or check the feed lips against other mags. Also shove the mag around while it is in there. Unless teacupping the gun, I'd generally think the M&P ergonomics would not result in the mag being pushed up into the gun, but anything's possible, this can cause weird jams on a lot of guns.

Beyond that, it isn't a design flaw with the gun, so whatever it is must be fixable unless it is an issue of ergonomics like I possibly suggested.

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Kalifornia10

· #9 · Sep 3, 2006

Hey guys...first off this is a great forum for the M&P and the amount of information alone on this site is overwhelming.

Just to echo Brad's concern I too had the same/similar problems with my M&P.40. I just got my gun on Friday cleaned it that night before shooting it just as S&W recommends and took it out on the range Saturday. The first 10 rounds I fired from my M&P went flawlessly. But right after the inital mag it failed to feed either the 1st round or right around the 2nd or 3rd round. I had 200 rounds Fiochi's 170 gr and I really hope that this is just an ammo issue. I brought my Glock 22 along just for comparison purposes and it went through 1 whole box of Fiochi 50 rnds without a single hicup. Now on that note however, i've read/heard that Fiochi's were made by MFS and that Fiochi's 170gr were made or taylored for the Glocks. Not sure on the credibility of that since it was from another forum:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/groupee/forum...04/m/1261017221

I am not giving up on the gun (just yet)...I WAS going to try the WWB's but after Brad's posting i'll wait on those and try the CCI Blazer's instead. If my M&P does not go BANG like the way I want it to, looks like i'm stuck with my G22 and will have to make a call to S&W.

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Jester

· #10 · Sep 3, 2006

Fiochi is one brand I have heard to stay away from.

I reccomend that people having problems go out and buy quality ammo and try it, if you have problems then, call S&W and have it fixed, or sell it to someone on the site. heck, I'll send it in to be repaired.

sparkman

· #11 · Sep 3, 2006

Jester said:
Fiochi is one brand I have heard to stay away from.

I reccomend that people having problems go out and buy quality ammo and try it, if you have problems then, call S&W and have it fixed, or sell it to someone on the site. heck, I'll send it in to be repaired.

I've shot literally thousands of rounds of Fiocchi 40 and 45's and found it to be outstanding ammo..just my experience

Jester

· #12 · Sep 3, 2006

I heard it was right up there with wolf. I'll shoot wolf in my sks, but nowhere else.

th1npower

· #13 · Sep 3, 2006

Jester said:
call S&W and have it fixed, or sell it to someone on the site. heck, I'll send it in to be repaired.

..a new gun should NOT need to be sent back to the manufacturer to have it work properly. S&W should not rely on their warranty department so heavily & make sure shipped pistols are fully capable shooters...

Jester

· #14 · Sep 3, 2006

lemons do make it through once in a while.

targetsup

· #15 · Sep 3, 2006

Have a buddy that had a SIG that did that. Fail to feed. SIG gave him a hard time with returning it. He sent it in twice and it still did the same thing. For some reason they would not replace the pistol. He finally got fed up with it and traded it in for a glock.

ShipWreck

· #16 · Sep 4, 2006

2 times I have had guns that I had to send back right away after issues at my first range trip. Sucks, I know. But, U'll get it back fixed. At least they are paying the shipping. I was never that lucky.

radd

· #17 · Sep 4, 2006

Kalifornia10 said:
inital mag it failed to feed either the 1st round or right around the 2nd or 3rd round. I had 200 rounds Fiochi's 170 gr

I had the same promblem with inconsistancy with Fiocchi 170 Grain. Finished my 2 fifty round boxes and never got them again.

checkout my post:

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=274

Kalifornia10

· #18 · Sep 4, 2006

Just an update to my original post and I hope this helps Brad out a little. I didn't want to send my M&P back to S&W right away without trying other brands of ammo first just as radd suggested, thanks man...also this is the 411 I got from my local range/gunsmith:

"just like handgun manufacturers there are several ammunition manufacturers as well. A certain caliber in this instance it's the S&W .40 may vary in spec and dimesion from one manufacturer to the next." He also said that the Fiochi's have a more squared or pronounced shoulder near the base of the bullet right at the start of the casing.

I was really itching to test my gun again and hoping it was just an ammo issue not the gun itself. So, I got to the range a bit late with about an hour left of shooting time...enough time to put 100 rounds through my M&P. I used 100 rounds of Speer Lawman .40 S&W 180 gr FMJ and my M&P went through both boxes without a hicup...not even a burp. I am still going to run a few more "test" boxes with other ammo brands and see how that goes. But while shooting those 100 rounds I can definitely say it shoots and feels better than my G22. It also feels like I could "control" the gun better than my G22...hard to describe. But you get the idea. If everything works out well...I might get the compact 9mm as well if they have it.

Kali 10 out...

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CBRADGO

Discussion Starter · #19 · Sep 8, 2006

Took it back to the range yesterday and the same thing happened with CCI Brass ammo BUT I think I've figured out the cause. I compared my pistol to another unfired M&P. The slide release spring that holds tension on the slide release buttons has a considerable amount of play in it. With the slide closed on the new one, you couldn't move the buttons up at all. However, on mine, there was plenty of play, hence all the lock backs.

I feel much better that I think I at least have a reason why the gun wasn't up to par. Now if my shipping labels would get here I could send it off, have it repaired, and get it back to run 1000's of trouble free rounds through it. COME ON S&W Customer Service!!!

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Rvrctyrngr

· #20 · Sep 8, 2006

Hope that's what it is, and that S&W fixes it pronto.

Ergo wise, I shot BHPs and 1911s so long I had to be VERY cognizant of where my strong thumb was on the frame when I switched over to Glocks for carry some 15 years ago. Even so, I still have the occasional premature lock back when I get lazy.

That being said, I have NOT had that problem with the M&P due to the design of the slide-lock. Some hate it, makes shooting a lot easier for me (I don't use it to release the slide...never have with any gun).

Please let us know what happens, Brad.

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