OK, I've had enough of the mag drop problem.

9938 Views 48 Replies 20 Participants Last post by YukonGlocker, Jul 20, 2007

APismoClam

Discussion Starter · May 28, 2007

I've come to the conclusion that the mag drop problem in the compacts is not caused by "faulty" mag catches, but is instead due mainly to an incorrectly manufactured oversized magazine well that allows the magazine to move around too freely. Even though the mag catch spring does not, in my opinion, provide the optimal amount of resistive force to hold the mag catch tooth engaged as it could with a spring rod of larger diameter, that is also not the main contributing factor, in my mind.

I just took both my M&P compacts (9 & 40) out to the range today and am not a happy camper. My 40 just came back from S&W with a "new" mag catch. It worked fine for the first three magazines and then they started popping out again. Also, my M&P 9c had a perfect operational record until it also started popping out mags while firing today.

As I have posted on this site several times before, I believe that the mag wells are oversized and allow the mags to jump around too much while firing, and wiggle out of contact with the minimal engagement surface of the metal tooth of the mag catch.

I have never owned any type of semi auto pistol before where the mag well allows such free movement of the magazine, especially at the top of the magazine. As I also posted before, I was able to push a fully seated magazine out from the top of my 40c with the slide off! My full size 40 M&P, on the otherhand, does not allow anywhere close to the same amount of free play of its magazines and has been absolute perfection in comparison.

In comparison, my Glocks sucked ergomically, but they were flawless in performance. S&W, you have to do a lot better than this! I'm royally P.O.'d now.

I guess I just keep sending my compacts back to S&W until they pay in postage what I paid for the guns.

I hate to say it, but I might be trading them in for a Sig P250 if S&W doesn't get their poop in a group.

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TexanAviator

· #2 · May 28, 2007

APismoClam said:
Glocks sucked ergomically, but they were flawless in performance.

Sorry to hear about all the problems you have been having....

I just watned to quote you and completely agree with ya. Good to know that if my MP starts acting up I always have something to fall back on that I know will function 100%

CLB

· #3 · May 28, 2007

Amen

I am still waiting on my full size 40 to come back (I had it less than 1 day new before I sent it back for mag dropping.

I am looking at the Glock in a more serious light.

When it comes down to the important things for me, it's not about ergonomics, etc, it's about drop dead reliablity. I bought my M&P for personal defense.

It will take me a while to trust it--if it works when I get it.

BTW Does Smith and Wesson look at this webiste???

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fast200

· #4 · May 28, 2007

UGH

Ya know,

As a lefty looking for a CCW firearm this thread surely is frustrating. I currently have a SIG p225, which is a fine weapon, but I was hoping for something that was truly accomodating to lefties. These compact problems are very discouraging and may push me to hold off on buying until they are ironed out.

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Jester

· #5 · May 28, 2007

All the compacts I have seen are flawless. we are talking about an uncontrolled group. Say maybe 100 in how many that have been sold???

Not saying that these problems arn't there, but people have to understand that forums are typically used to discuss problems...

You don't see a thread saying "" my mag catch is perfect""

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Kraigster414

· #6 · May 30, 2007

Jester said:
All the compacts I have seen are flawless. we are talking about an uncontrolled group. Say maybe 100 in how many that have been sold???

Not saying that these problems arn't there, but people have to understand that forums are typically used to discuss problems...

You don't see a thread saying "" my mag catch is perfect""

Jester, there is no real way of quantifying since the majority of gun owners in this case M&P owners, do not frequent the gun boards. But no question folks are more inclined to post negatives than positives. How many problem M&Ps are out there, who knows but suffice to say there appears to be an issue typically with 2 things - the slide stop spring and the mag catch. These are the two problems that keep getting repeated over and over again. I hope both can get resolved once and for all before too many more M&Ps leaves the factory. My gun required a trip back to S&W. They addressed quickly and it's nice they pick up the tab for overnight postage but like a lot of folks, I don't want to have to keep sending my gun back especially for the same problem - especially through the mail. I didn't have to do it with my Sig, XD or Glock and I didn't expect to have to do it with my M&Pc 9. Nevertheless, I like what S&W has done with the design of the M&Pc. It's a great good to shoot - I just want it to be 100 percent.

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wahoo95

· #7 · May 30, 2007

My 45 & 9c is perfect with no mag drop issues or any other issues

Same goes for the 40c I had previously. Sounds like the people with issues happened to get a bad egg, which can happen since these are tools and it is possible to have with issues. Jester said it best....this is a forum and this is where pepople come to discuss the problems. Let's stop making a thing about who's Glock or XD didn't have any problems, becuase I can assure you if you search their boards you'll see thos guns too have issues such as FTF, FTE, broken springs, etc.

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Jester

· #8 · May 30, 2007

wahoo95 said:
My 45 & 9c is perfect with no mag drop issues or any other issues

Same goes for the 40c I had previously. Sounds like the people with issues happened to get a bad egg, which can happen since these are tools and it is possible to have with issues. Jester said it best....this is a forum and this is where pepople come to discuss the problems. Let's stop making a thing about who's Glock or XD didn't have any problems, becuase I can assure you if you search their boards you'll see thos guns too have issues such as FTF, FTE, broken springs, etc.

Well said

Kraigster414

· #9 · May 30, 2007

wahoo95 said:
My 45 & 9c is perfect with no mag drop issues or any other issues

Same goes for the 40c I had previously. Sounds like the people with issues happened to get a bad egg, which can happen since these are tools and it is possible to have with issues. Jester said it best....this is a forum and this is where pepople come to discuss the problems. Let's stop making a thing about who's Glock or XD didn't have any problems, becuase I can assure you if you search their boards you'll see thos guns too have issues such as FTF, FTE, broken springs, etc.

The problems with the M&P seem to be limited to specific and recurring issues vs. FTF, FTE and broken springs that happen with all guns, and can be linked to a variety of causes including human error, i.e, limp wristing, need for break-in, and crappy ammo (hard primers, reloads and the like). Easily corrected for the most part without a trip to the factory. What we are seeing with the M&P appear to be minor design/parts flaws, hardly isolated, and they do not always show up immediately (in the case of dropped mags). To the best of my knowledge, there are no systemic issues/complaints associated with the Glock or XD - I know you don't want me to bring that up but the fact remains. With those guns, it's more of a "stuff happens" problem, the exception being the Glock 36 that has had somewhat of a checkered record, and the captive recoil assembly in the Glock subcompacts that I feel is not up to snuff.

For those who are experiencing difficulties with their M&P and did not have problems with "the other guns," it IS a disappointment - $500+ is still a lot of money for most of us. The fact that your gun works great doesn't make them feel any better

. My advice would be to hang in there. The factory acknowledges there is a problem with the mag catches, a spring change addresses the slide locking back on the last round so I suspect in time, all will be well with rare exceptions right out of the factory. I still like my M&Ps very much.

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DHart

· #10 · Jun 1, 2007

In conversation with a S&W rep today I was told that the metal engagement tab of the mag catch is much softer than the magazine metal and that when the tab wears against the mag during firing, that can lead to mag drop problems.

He asked me if I had switched the catch to the opposite side and if that helped. I said I had and it did. He thought the improvement was due to the opposite side of the catch's engagement surface being against the magazine rather than due to the tab being away from my thumb.

He said that they don't presently think that the magazine catch spring is weaker than it should be.

I enquired about the difference between catches marked "1" and "2" and wasn't told the difference. But he did say that they are NOW hard anodizing the engagement tab on the catches so that they don't wear like the earlier versions did. Having a 1 or 2 doesn't guarantee that you have a properly hardened catch, though. He said that some of the catches marked 1 and some marked 2 which were hardened, were found to be not as hard as they should be. He said that he personally obtained (from "upstairs") a brand new, fully-hardened catch and would send it to me to try before resorting to the option of sending the gun back to them a SECOND time.

S&W is a stand up company and so far I think they will do whatever it takes to get my gun right. He doesn't think the problem is my thumb hitting the mag catch tab.

SO.... that's the latest I know. I'm awaiting the third mag catch to try out in my M&P 40 Compact. Fingers crossed. In the meantime I have three recently purchased Glocks serving me: a 19, a 23, and a 30. They don't feel as nice in the hand as my M&P, but they are stone reliable and great shooters. I will continue to rely on the Glocks until such time as my M&P has proven itself LONG TERM, then I'll begin using it, along with my Glocks, in my defense gun rotation.

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Kraigster414

· #11 · Jun 1, 2007

DHart said:
In conversation with a S&W rep today I was told that the metal engagement tab of the mag catch is much softer than the magazine metal and that when the tab wears against the mag during firing, that can lead to mag drop problems.

He asked me if I had switched the catch to the opposite side and if that helped. I said I had and it did. He thought the improvement was due to the opposite side of the catch's engagement surface being against the magazine rather than due to the tab being away from my thumb.

He said that they don't presently think that the magazine catch spring is weaker than it should be.

I enquired about the difference between catches marked "1" and "2" and wasn't told the difference. But he did say that they are NOW hard anodizing the engagement tab on the catches so that they don't wear like the earlier versions did. Having a 1 or 2 doesn't guarantee that you have a properly hardened catch, though. He said that some of the catches marked 1 and some marked 2 which were hardened, were found to be not as hard as they should be. He said that he personally obtained (from "upstairs") a brand new, fully-hardened catch and would send it to me to try before resorting to the option of sending the gun back to them a SECOND time.

S&W is a stand up company and so far I think they will do whatever it takes to get my gun right. He doesn't think the problem is my thumb hitting the mag catch tab.

SO.... that's the latest I know. I'm awaiting the third mag catch to try out in my M&P 40 Compact. Fingers crossed. In the meantime I have three recently purchased Glocks serving me: a 19, a 23, and a 30. They don't feel as nice in the hand as my M&P, but they are stone reliable and great shooters. I will continue to rely on the Glocks until such time as my M&P has proven itself LONG TERM, then I'll begin using it, along with my Glocks, in my defense gun

rotation.

Definately a step in the right direction. When plastic dukes it out against metal, metal is going to win out all the time all things being equal. They need t harden that sucker up. Sounds like we are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel on the mag catch issue.

Thanks for the update!

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Highlander

· #12 · Jun 6, 2007

DHart said:
In conversation with a S&W rep today I was told that the metal engagement tab of the mag catch is much softer than the magazine metal and that when the tab wears against the mag during firing, that can lead to mag drop problems.

He asked me if I had switched the catch to the opposite side and if that helped. I said I had and it did. He thought the improvement was due to the opposite side of the catch's engagement surface being against the magazine rather than due to the tab being away from my thumb.

He said that they don't presently think that the magazine catch spring is weaker than it should be.

I enquired about the difference between catches marked "1" and "2" and wasn't told the difference. But he did say that they are NOW hard anodizing the engagement tab on the catches so that they don't wear like the earlier versions did. Having a 1 or 2 doesn't guarantee that you have a properly hardened catch, though. He said that some of the catches marked 1 and some marked 2 which were hardened, were found to be not as hard as they should be. He said that he personally obtained (from "upstairs") a brand new, fully-hardened catch and would send it to me to try before resorting to the option of sending the gun back to them a SECOND time.

S&W is a stand up company and so far I think they will do whatever it takes to get my gun right. He doesn't think the problem is my thumb hitting the mag catch tab.

SO.... that's the latest I know. I'm awaiting the third mag catch to try out in my M&P 40 Compact. Fingers crossed. In the meantime I have three recently purchased Glocks serving me: a 19, a 23, and a 30. They don't feel as nice in the hand as my M&P, but they are stone reliable and great shooters. I will continue to rely on the Glocks until such time as my M&P has proven itself LONG TERM, then I'll begin using it, along with my Glocks, in my defense gun rotation.

It seems to me that excessive wear does not explain the mag drop problems with guns right out of the box. They should not be worn. IMHO there seems to be a basic design flaw. S&W apparently recognizes that there is a problem since they are working on solutions. Two weeks ago I was ready to start shopping for an MP40c, but now I have no confidence in the gun for defense. That is sad because it looks like it will be a fine weapon after the flaws are fixed. I guess I will stick with my old wheel gun. I know that it will work when needed.

Kraigster414

· #13 · Jun 6, 2007

Though it may have been done already, I am going to provide a link to this thread to S&W. It can't hurt. Maybe others need to do the same to demonstrate that others are equally concerned and want to see things fixed quick.

[email protected]

nikon777

· #14 · Jun 6, 2007

wahoo95 said:
My 45 & 9c is perfect with no mag drop issues or any other issues

Same goes for the 40c I had previously. Sounds like the people with issues happened to get a bad egg, which can happen since these are tools and it is possible to have with issues. Jester said it best....this is a forum and this is where pepople come to discuss the problems. Let's stop making a thing about who's Glock or XD didn't have any problems, becuase I can assure you if you search their boards you'll see thos guns too have issues such as FTF, FTE, broken springs, etc.

yup, just cruise the glock and xd boards, you'll find plenty of problems. Hell i remember when the rails on certain 3rd gen glock 17's were shearing off. Or the cracked locking blocks on the XD's. Nothing is perfect.

Kraigster414

· #15 · Jun 6, 2007

nikon777 said:
[quote name='wahoo95']My 45 & 9c is perfect with no mag drop issues or any other issues

Same goes for the 40c I had previously. Sounds like the people with issues happened to get a bad egg, which can happen since these are tools and it is possible to have with issues. Jester said it best....this is a forum and this is where pepople come to discuss the problems. Let's stop making a thing about who's Glock or XD didn't have any problems, becuase I can assure you if you search their boards you'll see thos guns too have issues such as FTF, FTE, broken springs, etc.

yup, just cruise the glock and xd boards, you'll find plenty of problems. Hell i remember when the rails on certain 3rd gen glock 17's were shearing off. Or the cracked locking blocks on the XD's. Nothing is perfect.[/quote]

I frequent the Glock and XD boards regularly and there is nothing that compares to the repeat and systemic issues many M&P owners are experiencing with respect to the mag catch and the slide stop, particularly the former. Any problems Glock and XD owners are experiencing appear to be less systemic in nature (more like "stuff happens" difficulties) and not the same complaints for the same things over and over - plus more than a few are attributable to human error not to a design flaw. As for the cracked XD locking block, to the best of my knolwedge this was a rare occurence. Mags dropping out of M&Ps appears not to be such a rare occurrence.

What I think we have in the case of the M&P is a mag catch design/part issue that needs to be re-designed. Bottom line, you have got to feel confident about a carry weapon. Many are with their M&Ps and more than a few are not. I think we'll get there but I am a little concerned. Still I enjoy my M&Ps. It's a great feelin' gun.

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2xTap

· #16 · Jun 6, 2007

double post

2xTap

· #17 · Jun 6, 2007

Jester said:
All the compacts I have seen are flawless. we are talking about an uncontrolled group. Say maybe 100 in how many that have been sold???

Not saying that these problems arn't there, but people have to understand that forums are typically used to discuss problems...

You don't see a thread saying "" my mag catch is perfect""

Well actually... now you do see a thread called "My magazine catch is perfect" <--Link

:twisted:

DHart

· #18 · Jun 7, 2007

My first mag catch was perfect. For about 400 rounds. My scond mag catch was perfect. For a few hundred rounds. So yes, there are perfect mag catches! They just don't always stay perfect, though! :roll:

Highlander

· #19 · Jun 7, 2007

I wonder, hmmm

I wonder if there is a redesign in the works. Could the current "two free magazines" promo be an effort to clear inventory before a new release? Just a thought. Like a lot of my thoughts it is probably wrong.

DrWho

· #20 · Jun 8, 2007

DHart said:
My first mag catch was perfect. For about 400 rounds. My scond mag catch was perfect. For a few hundred rounds. So yes, there are perfect mag catches! They just don't always stay perfect, though! :roll:

That is what worries me, I think everything is just wonderful then suddenly I need the gun for defense. I fire one shot and the mag drops out. Great customer service won't be worth crap to me.

I personally know of a person who bought an MP and had mag drop issues. He dumped it and went back to his glock.

I know a guy who had the 'striker' break in the first few hundred rounds. He will no longer carry the M&P.

Myself I have had two light primer hits, two different brands of ammo and the mag come loose while carrying.

Say what you want about forums being a place that attracts complaints, I will not bet my life on an M&P.

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