IMHO, the .45GAP is dead in the water. Other than a few PDs adopting the round and the corresponding Glock, it is simply not selling. The recoil with the GAP is harsher than the 45ACP. With the new XD in .45ACP the GAP is history.
The .357SIG on the other hand, is here to stay and it is my favorite SD cartridge. Less recoil than the parental .40S&W and more accurate.
I am anxiously awaiting the release of the full size M&P in .357SIG.
Both the USSS and the Texas DPS(Highway patrol) are very pleased with the .357SIG cartridge.
I agree with Exiledviking, the GAP is a round that is dead in the water. Have to admit the recoil was more than I thought it would be. the 45ACP feels better to shoot than the GAP. And as far as the 40S&W against the GAP, well to me 40S&W hands down. I like .357SIG good solid round IMHO. But the pricey target ammo and even higher priced defense ammo has pushed me away from the .357SIG. I am more than happy with the 40S&W and .45ACP. Well since 3 big players Colt, S&W, and SIG have a round, Glock thought maybe its time to have one. Good idea bad application. Better luck next time. :twisted:
the .45 gap is pointless. It's not the first short .45 to fit in a 9mm, and nobody remembers the last one either.
As for .357 sig, I have to disagree with the previous posters other than it is an accurate round. At 50 yards, you can tell it is flatter shooting than a .40, but it's not like the difference is really that meaningful.
It might depend on the gun, but I find it to be a harsh and flippy round on recoil. moreso than .40 IMO. Perceived recoil is a matter of opinion though. I might also be that I've only ever shot .357sig in a compact frame and am comparing it to .40 out of a compact frame.
.357 sig sucks if someone else isn't paying your ammo bill. It's pricey, and the necked cartridge makes it a real pain in the ass to reload. Factory ammo is really pricey as well.
IMO the real big loser issue for me is the noise. It's jsut too damn loud. A .357 sig with a 3" barrel is about the most irksome round i can think of other than something like .475 wildy (pistol round). Given the harsh recoil and flip, adding that noise to the equation makes it one of the rounds most likely to cause you to develop a flinch, especially for the recoil sensitive.
Might be cool in a subgun with an 8" or longer barrel.. except for maybe throat erosion.
I think by and large it is an invention trying to fix a people problem with gear.
No interest in the 45 GAP , but I really like the 357 SIg . Ammo cost is almost the same as 40 S&W since the local WalMart started carrying that caliber . I used to carry a Steyr M357 in that caliber before I got my M&P and now just waiting for aftermarket barrels in that caliber for my M&P to hit the market .
Well Jester, I'm the lone wolf here, I have a .357 Sig 229 and a glock 38 which is the mid size 45 GAP. Now that being said, my duty weapon is a Sig P220 45 DAC. During my last quals I shot a perfect score with Gap. which is now my duty weapon for the time being. The Gap gives me 10 rnds vs 7 or 8, the recoil is less,which improves accuracy and double tap shots. the amount of ammo and the associated weight wears on the body during a 12 hour shift. In the near future I hope to qual with the M&P if all goes well, and its approved I'll use my M&P for carry.
8) At the time. the availability of increased bullet mass down range using 200 or 230 gr devastator bullets, however newer and heaver S&W 40 are now on the market, which have stirred my interest. Just trying to keep up with the trends.
I like 357 Sig quite a bit & the LE organizations carrying it here it Texas seem to be pleased as well. The state police (DPS) traded in their 45acps for 357 Sig & are happier by all accounts I've heard. Plus, bottleneck cases have a feeding reliability advantage in semiautos. Is the obnoxious blast & steep ammo price worth it for about a 100fps over a hot 9mm? - not to me but if someone else was buying my ammo again...
I don't like the 40 much due to it's spikey pressure curve & the compromises made to adapt 9mm platforms to handle it (the 2 reasons that .40s are more subject to kabooom issues than other calibers) - I'll probably never own one. The 45GAP was a half-axxed Austrian solution to an ergonomic problem (the G21's grip size) IMO! From what I've heard about the M&P 45 prototype & the HK45, the 45acp can be designed to be comfortable in the hand & still offer decent capacity.
The .45gap is unneeded IMHO. It addresses a problem found on Glocks which is the chunky double stack grip. Being the XD, 24/7, P45, and soon the M&P and Px4 all offer comfortable grip .45acp's the GAP is going nowhere fast.
The .357sig is about in the same boat I am sad to say. The heyday for the .357sig was in the late 90's and it has not gotten any better since. Ammo is still scarce in a lot of locals, it is still as expensive in most cases as .45acp, and it is still a 1 show pony with it's 125gr slug. Bullet technology has progressed the .40 and 9mm right back up there with .357sig performance, unless someone devotes some time to doing the same with the .357sig it will always be what it is now which is a tier 2 caliber.
Well, the 357 sig is a necked down 40S&W case. The 357 is also a .355" caliber (same as a 9mm Luger). So it's a 9mm with more "umph". It actually does not shoot a .357 bullet like the 38 special or 357 magnum (or so says my Speers reloading manual)
I like it...I just bought the M&P 40 and I"m going to let my wife shoot it...if it's a bit too much for her, I think I'm going to try and get her to try a 357 sig.
The only problem I see is that it does have a necked case, so reloading is a bit more of a hassle (no carbide dies and you have to lube the dies). Also, isn't the 357 sig ammo more expensive than the 40S&W?
A lot of little nitpicky points...but my overall judgement is that it's a pretty darn good round.
I considered the GAP when I wanted a 1911 officers size gun for CCW. I think the shorter cycling of the GAP would make it more reliable than the 45ACP in the smaller gun. Other than that, there isn't another reason why I would get a GAP instead of the old ACP.
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