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I am a cilvilian who has a 40 S&W MP for home/personal protection. I have been on the forum and just poking around got some gold saber 165 grain HP for my protection ammo. I just had a friend get a glock 40 and we went out shooting for the first time. When I asked him what he was going to use for his personal protection ammo he brought out the 180 grain JHP remmington UMC he got at Wall-Mart for 26$ for 100. He said that he did not think that it mattered that much and the guy at Bass Pro said they where the same thing as the Gold Sabers. Now this is from a guy that gives every one at deer camp a hard time if they are not using top of the line bullets for deer, but I can not get it through his head that there is also a difference it pistol ammunition. Any help of resource material would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 

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I would not buy those green box Remington hollow points at Wal-Mart. However, U can buy the hollow point Winchester White Box rounds - those are good. I buy them for 9mm all the time. Bullet tests I have seen rank them right up there with the expensive rounds. I am assuming them make them for 40 cal too (at Wal-Mart). U get a box of 50 for a decent price.



I bought that Remington 100 pack a couple of years ago. The flash on that stuff is unbelievable - especially at an indoor range. I'd hate to have to defend myself with that stuff at night.



So, I wouldn't recommend it.
 

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Stick by what Doc says.





The following loads all demonstrate outstanding terminal performance and can be considered acceptable for duty/self-defense use:



9 mm:

Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)

Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)

Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)

Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)

Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)

Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)

Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)

Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)

Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)



.40 S&W:

Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)

Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP

Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)

Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)

Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)

Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)

Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)

Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)

Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)



.45 ACP:

Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)

Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)

Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)

Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP

Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)

Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)
 

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Ever heard of the Winchester Supreme personal protection ammo? Labeled as 40 S&W 180 GR. SXT Barcode 020892206434. I dont see alot of mention of this ammo for personal protection carry, but its what my gun shop recommended. It is also pretty damn expensive, 18.99 for a box of 20 rounds.
 

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Angry_American said:
Ever heard of the Winchester Supreme personal protection ammo? Labeled as 40 S&W 180 GR. SXT Barcode 020892206434. I dont see alot of mention of this ammo for personal protection carry, but its what my gun shop recommended. It is also pretty damn expensive, 18.99 for a box of 20 rounds.


From http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm

According to Olin-Winchester public relations, the Supreme SXT bullet design has not been factory tested in standard ordnance gelatin because it was not designed to meet police ammunition performance specifications. As a result, there's no valid and verifiable performance data available from Winchester or the FBI.



We find Winchester's attitude troubling because they're marketing a personal defense bullet (a life safety device) in which they confessed to us that they've no idea how well (or poorly) it performs. Therefore, we advise you not to buy and use Supreme SXT until Winchester gets its act together and coughs up performance data for this cartridge.


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Interesting.....I guess that means I have some real expensive ammo to shoot up.



Next time I am in the big city I will pick up some of the good stuff.
 

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Angry_American said:
Interesting.....I guess that means I have some real expensive ammo to shoot up.



Next time I am in the big city I will pick up some of the good stuff.


Not to sound sarcastic but where in Iowa is the "big city" coming from a southern MN just thought I would throw that last part in for fun 8)
8)
 

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Quad cities are pretty darn big, but for me a town of 35k is the big city around here, considering I live and work in a nice little town of 1,700 people. After having lived in big cities and large towns, I like the pace and lifestyle here. I have a nice little business going on, the people are great, and its the type of place where you can let your kids ride their bikes on the street and not have to worry.
 

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you should check them out down here in northern ga they are everywhere it is definitly a change for the good maybe when i move back we could talk about a weekend shoot
 

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101Combat Vet said:
you should check them out down here in northern ga they are everywhere it is definitly a change for the good maybe when i move back we could talk about a weekend shoot


Absolutley, I would love to get together with any of you all. I will be headin down to SC this next coming spring, I have a bro getting married. I spent a lot of time in the Carolina's in my early adult years, had a blast down there.
 

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I carry Federal Tactical HST 230gr. +P in my M&P45, and Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P in the 9c. I know a lot of people who carry ball ammo in their carry guns. No way I could carry it and feel comfortable - just personal preference.
 

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josh said:
I carry Federal Tactical HST 230gr. +P in my M&P45, and Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P in the 9c. I know a lot of people who carry ball ammo in their carry guns. No way I could carry it and feel comfortable - just personal preference.


No it is NOT a personal difference. Knowing my luck I will be standing innocently behind the BG when your friend rips off a few rounds dead center. After they have done their job to the BG I am sure they will continue through me and probably into some other innocent bystander. Hollow point rounds are designed to deliver all their energy into the first, and hopefully intended, target and stay there.



Carrying a gun with FMJ rounds is irresponsible and downright dumb. Friends don't let friends carry FMJ! <period> FMJ is for plinking, JHP are for self-defense.
 

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MP40Fan said:
[quote name='josh']I carry Federal Tactical HST 230gr. +P in my M&P45, and Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P in the 9c. I know a lot of people who carry ball ammo in their carry guns. No way I could carry it and feel comfortable - just personal preference.


No it is NOT a personal difference. Knowing my luck I will be standing innocently behind the BG when your friend rips off a few rounds dead center. After they have done their job to the BG I am sure they will continue through me and probably into some other innocent bystander. Hollow point rounds are designed to deliver all their energy into the first, and hopefully intended, target and stay there.



Carrying a gun with FMJ rounds is irresponsible and downright dumb. Friends don't let friends carry FMJ! <period> FMJ is for plinking, JHP are for self-defense.[/quote]



I was saying it's my personal preference to NOT carry ball ammo as I sure wouldn't feel comfortable with it for the exact reasons you stated.



These aren't 'friends', per se. Just people I know - most of which being online.





I went to NC two weekends ago and carried my M&P45 with WWB ball ammo as it is all I had. It was better than nothing, but the whole time I was thinking to myself how I could not comfortably use it. I kept picturing myself diving to my stomach and shooting up through a bad guy so as to help eliminate the possibility of hitting an innocent bystander behind them. Needless to say I'll never carry it again.
 

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Is the bad guy going to know you shot him with a box of gold dots you paid $18 for 50rd or a box of UMC HP rounds you paid $26 for 100 rds?



Any ammo made in the USA will work just fine, if you need to shoot throw auto glass or think you may then you my want a round that is bonded. But if not there is nothing wrong with UMC. Someone said that the flash was bright with them? well in a gun fight your not going to lose that much night vision that it matters.



Most gun fights are over as soon as they start! and once again is the bad guy going to know your cheaper priced carry load flashed more then the hight end?



Long as the round will Pen 12inch is all you should looking for, price and brand are a personal thing for most people sure you can pay more if you like.
 

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henchmen77 said:
Is the bad guy going to know you shot him with a box of gold dots you paid $18 for 50rd or a box of UMC HP rounds you paid $26 for 100 rds?



Any ammo made in the USA will work just fine, if you need to shoot throw auto glass or think you may then you my want a round that is bonded. But if not there is nothing wrong with UMC. Someone said that the flash was bright with them? well in a gun fight your not going to lose that much night vision that it matters.



Most gun fights are over as soon as they start! and once again is the bad guy going to know your cheaper priced carry load flashed more then the hight end?



Long as the round will Pen 12inch is all you should looking for, price and brand are a personal thing for most people sure you can pay more if you like.
Not every JHP will open reliably and penetrate 12 inches. That's why it matters to me.



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The only thing I carry ball ammo in is my P32 to avoid rimlock. (but I don't have a .380 Chooch) I think the magic 12 inches of penetration is highly overated. The 380 and lower don't normally generate a lot energy so that the ball ammo may stop in the torso. This is probably more effective than a 9mm ball which zips through the attacker and transfers very little of its energy to the target. This effect is similarly seen the in 5.56 when the military went to a tighter twist in its barrels to boost accuracy. The more stabilized round tended to perforate the target much easier resulting in reports of inadequate stopping power as compared the the less stabilized rounds which tended to yaw or tumble in the target. There are some really good JHPs out there for 9s and above. I see no reason not to take advantage.



(Before someone chimes in with the whole energy doesn't matter thing lets think back to our physics classes. Energy is required for WORK. the more energy is available, the more energy that is used, the more work is done. For example, bullet deformation, cutting and tearing tissue, bruising, penetration, etc.....) Velocity adds energy. Personally, I like to see over 300lbs of energy in my defense loads. More than that is better.
 

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I agree Chooch. I PREFER rounds that will expand and penetrate 12-18 or so inches. But I will take a little more expansion with a little less penetration rather than the other way around. Corbon JHPs, and the 125gr .357 loads are good examples of rounds with a good reputation yet they don't penetrate up to FBI standards. I still believe the FBI standards are a little faulty in their conclusions but I have learned that what we used to consider overpenetration (14-18 inches in Jello) isn't as bad of a thing as we once thought.
 
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